D&D General The Generic Deities of D&D

[Thakazum]

This is hugely dependent on where you are - in Texas you meet religious people all the time, to the point where areligious people are seen as weird; in New Jersey religious people really stand out because there's so few.

That's the thing! I grew up and still live in Texas. Plenty of religious people, yes. That doesn't mean they play D&D. Things are definitely different now, though. The concepts and lore have become pervasive throughout culture and, of course, D&D's rise in popularity have helped normalize it.

 

[the Jester]

Not in greyhawk. They don’t need worshippers for their power

Can you back this up? Because the whole "gods gain power via worship" thing, at least in D&D, came straight from a Gygax-penned article in Dragon Magazine from back when anything he wrote was official. And anything he wrote about setting stuff was aimed squarely at Greyhawk.

 

[the Jester]

Dude, can you please write this up in a blog post so I can refer back to it? And continue to expand on it until you have created a series of 30-40 blog posts that can then be combined, with cool art, into a book sold on DriveThru that I can buy as POD (better yet, kickstart it!) so I can have a physical copy?

I may be the only one who is interested in trying to make a game that's relatively realistic - at least in the way people engage with religion and their gods... So maybe it wouldn't be a platinum seller. But at least I'd be happy.

You should look at his story hour, man. Cheiromancer put together a compiled thread called Tales of Wyre. It's on EnWorld, and if you want to see high level religious shenanigans in a world where the Truth is both murky and malleable, you can't do better.

 

[Jester David]

I’m sure someone mentioned it here, but Critical Role also uses the Dawn War pantheon with the addition of Sarenrae from Pathfinder—renamed Rae in the official book.
These are included in the 3rd party book from a Green Ronin and given titles rather than names, which makes them extra generic. A good customizable pantheon.

Other than that it becomes tricky. As soon as you give a god a name and backstory they cease to be generic.

 

[Aldarc]

Official D&D settings have, pretty consistently since first edition, the same set of monstrous and demihuman deities. They even have some of the same evil deities.
...
Anyone else ever think about the presumptions of core deities in D&D?

Kinda like what @Jester David mentions, there is also the 4e Dawn War Pantheon. It takes the premise that there were more deities, but many of them died during the Dawn War. So the Dawn War Pantheon (and their lesser demigod exarchs) are what's left and they form the generic pantheon for the game. It makes for a greater starter kit pantheon, and it's pretty darn useful as a toolkit pantheon for GMs.

I made my own version of the Dawn War Pantheon here.

 

[wingsandsword]

Can you back this up? Because the whole "gods gain power via worship" thing, at least in D&D, came straight from a Gygax-penned article in Dragon Magazine from back when anything he wrote was official. And anything he wrote about setting stuff was aimed squarely at Greyhawk.

I'm mildly curious about which article this was and when it was written.

Saying gods need worship to gain power was one of the things that changed in 2nd edition Forgotten Realms via the Time of Troubles, in-universe it was one of Ao's changes to make gods more responsive to their worshippers (although apparently the elemental gods were exempt from this somehow)

Given that plotline was in 1989, and the realms originally came as a published D&D setting in 1987 without that rule, it puts a relatively narrow window on when that change in D&D's setting presumptions would have changed.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I'm mildly curious about which article this was and when it was written.

Saying gods need worship to gain power was one of the things that changed in 2nd edition Forgotten Realms via the Time of Troubles, in-universe it was one of Ao's changes to make gods more responsive to their worshippers (although apparently the elemental gods were exempt from this somehow)

Given that plotline was in 1989, and the realms originally came as a published D&D setting in 1987 without that rule, it puts a relatively narrow window on when that change in D&D's setting presumptions would have changed.

I think my first encounter with the explicit mechanic of worship fuelling deities' power in D&D was via the acquisition of Quintessence in the BECMI Immortals set (1986). I suspect it was probably Moorcock who gave the idea currency in the first place, and it was sort of osmotically absorbed into ideas which were percolating fairly early.

Deities and Demigods (1980), p.8 states:

The source of a deity's godheads is in some way connected to his or her worshippers, though in what manner the gods derive this power is a mystery totally beyond mortal (or immortal) comprehension. However, it's true that a god's power often increases or decreases as the number of his worshippers varies. Thus deities, and clerics as their agents, constantly try to increase the quantity and quality of their worshippers.

So it has a fairly long tradition.

 

[David Howery]

Can you back this up? Because the whole "gods gain power via worship" thing, at least in D&D, came straight from a Gygax-penned article in Dragon Magazine from back when anything he wrote was official. And anything he wrote about setting stuff was aimed squarely at Greyhawk.

I'm mildly curious about which article this was and when it was written.

I can vaguely remember seeing that article too, but I just don't recall when it appeared.... obviously, it had to be in the fairly early days of Dragon, early 80s... there was some fairly specific numbers in it, i.e., a greater god had to have at least XX number of worshipers, etc....

 

[the Jester]

I'm mildly curious about which article this was and when it was written.

I no longer have it, but I think it was "Deities and their Faithful" from issue 97. The title I had in my head was "Gods and their Faithful," which is a close match, and it has been 30ish years.

I do think that notion was woven into a lot of 1e material, but I'm not sure if or where it was actually spelled out.

 

[the Jester]

I can vaguely remember seeing that article too, but I just don't recall when it appeared.... obviously, it had to be in the fairly early days of Dragon, early 80s... there was some fairly specific numbers in it, i.e., a greater god had to have at least XX number of worshipers, etc....

Yeah, I don't remember the specifics, but I do recall that a god got mana both from actual worshipers and from creatures of its alignment. It was a sort of two-channel affair. Although maybe that second channel was only open to higher status deities. It's been a while.