The Gnew Gnome, are they just as useless and lame as the others?

[DreamChaser]

See, in my experience--and I'm fully prepared to acknowledge that my experience may not be the norm, but it's all I have to judge by--enough people don't "get" gnomes that they're actually played less often than some of the monster races. I have actually seen more kobolds and goblins played as PCs in all my years of D&D than I have gnomes.

(I've also seen far more half-elves and half-orcs, for the record.)

I agree that your experience may be common but I think that is a problem of marketing more than anything else. But there is also the matter of personal taste. I have NEVER had a player play a dwarf (even my psychomunchkin older brother who prided himself on finding warped ways of dealing heinous amounts of damage and being able to survive the magical equivalent of a tac-nuke without flinching).

I have had players play orcs and goblins more often than gnomes too. Why? Because gnomes are presented as being "silly" and most people think of David the Gnome when they think of the word gnome. Many players want a character that will be taken seriously or at least feared by some. A gnome-god-lich would be laughed at (while she was destroying the laughers utterly) because everything (even down the core gnome god) is presented as being silly. Nothing I have ever done on the campaign level has completely overcome this preconception.

My take on the gnome changes is that they are making it LESS silly by changing them over to bard. They have a culture that is dynamic and artistic and they pride themselves on their resourcefulness and free thinking. They excell at pranks but these are as likely to be vicious as not (depending on the individual) and moving them away from Illusions (which especially in 3e seem pretty harmless) makes them capable of seeming menacing and capable.

(I've also seen far more half-elves and half-orcs, for the record.)
[/B]

This was exactly my point. And more, it fits the "players like dark" idea. Half-elves are often seen as broody and half-orcs are barbarian rages waiting to happen. This has far more appeal than silly. I wonder what would happen to the wide spread play of these races if they were made impotent and sterile due to their half breed status. Or if they were the constant butt of jokes. Or if they were all midgits. I'm betting their population would drop siginificantly.

And again I must say: If they are that common, why are there any elfs, orcs, and humans left?

Or better: why haven't they become their own race whcih only breeds with itself and has a name seperate from their ancestors?

DC

 

[talinthas]

for the record, tinker gnomes were Jeff Grubb's idea.

And as a dragonlance and gnome fan, i think it was a darned good idea at that =)

 

[ForceUser]

Quite frankly I see no reason to have both gnomes and halflings in the same setting. I always have one or the other in my homebrews, but not both. They are both small, tricksy, good-hearted demihumans.

I am using gnomes in my current campaign, slightly altered to play up the tinkerer aspect of the race. Instead of bard or illusionist, their favored class is transmuter. Gnomes are renowned for being artificers; in my world they have invented firearms, airships, indoor plumbing, and the printing press. The gnomish leader is elected based on what he has invented to better the gnomish race, and the current leader is the fellow who invented indoor plumbing. Invention, ingenuity, and imagination are the three most important virtues to my world's gnomes.

Gnomes are cool.

 

[ph34r]

Lame

 

[Gez]

Gnomes weren't necessarily evil in folklore. I've read about gnomes as earth-spirits, all knowledgeable in the lores of alchemy (notably, metal and its transmutation). There's also the kind nature spirit archetype, à la David the Gnome (not sure if it's known worlwide, but I think so). Helping and healing animals, freeing forest animals them from traps, curing farm animals from diseases, etc. I think the "talk to burrowing mammals" part of D&D comes from these particular gnomes.

 

[trancejeremy]

While Gnomes started off seriously enough, they have two basic problems. First, the punning potential of their name is immense. Secondly, garden/lawn gnomes.

The latter have actually gone a long way in changing the gnome from an earth spirit or elemental (of Paracelcus) to a short little goofy guy.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I love gnomes.

Be they tricksy illusionists, great rennaisence folk of technology, nature spirits of stone and tree, or all-knowing diviners (or all of the above).

Heck, I've got subraces: Rock gnomes (illusionists), Forest Gnomes (druids), Gem Gnomes (Clairsentients), and House Gnomes (Technological). Throw in Svirfneblin (dour, protective earth spirits), and Spriggans (malicious pranksters), and you've got a gnomish universe fit for exploitation.

I think Force User's got it slightly backwards. Halflings aren't tricky or pranksters -- they're stoic survivors and put-upon people. They are resourceful, not tricksy. And gnomes shouldn't be nessecarily the great engineers -- Dwarves do much of it (IMC, anything the House Gnomes do is for convenience and city life, not the great engineering projects of grand metal and stone that the dwarves undertake).

And if by any chance my manuscript is accepted to write any WotC novel in the near or far future, gnomes (and to a major extent, dwarves) will both be vindicated. I'm not going to reveal much, but here's three words.

Evil. Gnomish. Pimp.

There.

 

[roytheodd]

"The Gnew Gnome, are they just as useless and lame as the others?"

Yes they are. I don't like the treatment they get in D&D at all.

 

[Nifft]

I'm probably going to make Gnomes a Tiny race, to make them different from Halflings.

-- Nifft

 

[kenjib]

I think they should have been made more like the little fellows in Legend. If you dropped the tinkering stuff the 3e one was already pretty close. That would have given them a nice and unique niche. Giving them bard as a favored class takes away from the illusion aspect which was at least something unique, and makes them seem more like 3e halflings (gypsy/bohemian/rascal etc.).