The HERO System

[PCD]

Dang. I hope I like it then....wouldn't want to be a Poo-Poo head...

laffs

 

[Dogbrain]

Put a flaw on your ED.

That's still not immunity.

 

[Darkness]

That's still not immunity.

Depends on how much of it you buy.

 

[Eosin the Red]

see, that was always the weird thing for me with HERO. i can't think of very many (well, any right now off the top of my head) superheroes or supervillains from comics who get tired out from using their powers.

i've never seen Cyclops say, "Darn, i can't fire any more optic blasts. i'm worn out." i've never seen Superman get tired from flying around too much.

Endurance as its used in HERO/Champions just doesn't model the genre IMO.

how many fights in comic books end not because the hero KOs the bad guy, but because the bad guy gets tired first? yet, as you said, that happens much more frequently in Champions.

Actually this is a concept based off of one of the Xmen - Sunfire. It also applies to Nightcrawler, Cannonball, and Sunspot. That is off the top of my head in just the Xmen. Cyclops & Havok have a neverending energy blast - it never tires them out. Ever. So, bought to 0 END.

 

[Eosin the Red]

I like the idea of Electro being immune to electricity but not to plasma bolts. Do we need Electricity Defense and Plasma Defense on every character sheet? Cold Defense and Sonic Defense? Fire Defense and Acid Defense?

A flexible system can handle plenty of nuances without inflexibly requiring stats for all of them.

Without getting silly - we are talking about broad concepts of damage. Energy - Physical - Mental. I am sure that even you can agree that those are broad concepts and what you are referring to are specific concepts? To clarify - Fire can only injure in 4 ways. Given that I think you will grant that Energy is a General Concept and that Fire is a Specific - your example falls flat.

d20 also uses STUN and BODY in Star Wars and in the UA. It also has a seperate STUNNING level and yet another level to track for instant death. Why do you insist on making Hero seem so difficult? It is of approximate difficulty to d20 - you can claim otherwise but you can also claim the sun will rise in the west....that don't make it so. You seem to purposefully distort the system to make your points, what value does that have?

Hero aint perfect but it ain't what you paint it either and anyone who starts a thread on RPG.net to talk about Hero is already suspect or brand new to RPG.net.

 

[Eosin the Red]

I am on the hero system is great side of the argument. Now I freely admit I have a few house rules to streamline the game since I got its too slow in combat complaints from new players.

Just to make a small note - d20 and Hero both have more house rules than players Most everybody in both systems tweeks the game to suit their taste.

 

[d4]

Actually this is a concept based off of one of the Xmen - Sunfire. It also applies to Nightcrawler, Cannonball, and Sunspot. That is off the top of my head in just the Xmen. Cyclops & Havok have a neverending energy blast - it never tires them out. Ever. So, bought to 0 END.

of course. i never said there weren't any characters who didn't tire -- i think i said i couldn't think of any off the top of my head.

however, i'm sure if we sat down and started making lists, the list of comic book characters who have "bought their powers down to 0 END" (to use the HERO-ism) would be far longer than those who do use END.

that's why i think the system would be better if it assumed 0 END by default and had "Tires Character" as a limitation. in fact, this is exactly what Mutants & Masterminds does.

 

[d4]

Without getting silly - we are talking about broad concepts of damage. Energy - Physical - Mental. I am sure that even you can agree that those are broad concepts and what you are referring to are specific concepts? To clarify - Fire can only injure in 4 ways. Given that I think you will grant that Energy is a General Concept and that Fire is a Specific - your example falls flat.

actually, mmadsen was arguing the exact opposite -- why not just have one type of damage instead of three, and just one stat to resist it ("Toughness"). if you want to be more resistant to physical damage than energy damage, put an advantage or limitation on your "Toughness" stat.

again, there's no need for complexity to affect every character in the game if it's only going to be used by a small fraction of them.

 

[d4]

That's still not immunity.

from what i remember reading, it's actually "by design" in HERO that there are no absolute immunities.

 

[Acid_crash]

I like both games, but I like HERO more. It's more detailed, and provides me more options. However, I play d20 more because I can find more people to play it, and when people see that big black book (BBb ) on the shelf, they grimace and turn away from it...

For sheer flexibility, HERO dominates. For simplicity, D&D dominates. However, for cumbersome systems with bunches of rules, house rules, skills charts, traits/feats...both are tied in complexity...