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The highest-damage fighter power is level 3?!

kerbarian

Explorer
Specifically, I was looking at single-target damage and not considering status effects. And the top-damage power looks like Rain of Blows, a level-3 encounter power.

The reason is that it gives you the most attacks against a single target of any fighter power, which means you get to apply the weapon, strength, and feat bonuses to damage the greatest number of times.

You do have to be using a light blade, spear, or flail for the full benefit, but I compared it with other powers assuming that they also were used with their preferred weapons. In order to compare powers of different levels, I just went with a level-30 character using them. I assumed a final strength of 26, a +6 magic weapon, and +1 damage from weapon focus -- all pretty basic stuff for a level-30 fighter.

Assuming the fighter hits about half the time, that means an average of three attacks from Rain of Blows (two initial attacks, one of which connects to allow a secondary attack).

Assuming the highest-damage weapon (2d6), each hit would be for 2d6 + 8 (str) + 6 (weapon) + 1 (feat) = 22 average damage, or 66 for 3 hits.

No Mercy, the level-29 daily, would hit for 2d6 * 7 + 8 + 6 + 1 = 64 average damage.

If you insist on the +3 proficiency bonus and only go with swords, the best options would be a rapier for Rain of Blows and a Bastard Sword (two-handed) for No Mercy. In that case, the damage for Rain of Blows is 1d8 + 15 = 19.5 * 3 = 58.5, and the damage for No Mercy is 1d10 * 7 + 15 + 1 (versatile) = 54.5.

Rain of Blows even comes out better on crits. While No Mercy gets a big bump from all those weapon damage dice that can be maximized, Rain of Blows can crit multiple times and thus get the +6d6 crit bonus from the magic weapon multiple times.

There is one power that can compete (that I found): the level-15 daily Dragon's Fangs. That gets you two attacks for 3[W] + strength instead of three attacks for 1[W] + strength. For that level-30 character, Dragon's Fangs comes out ahead if you're using a 1d10 or larger weapon. It also does half damage on a miss, which puts it well over the top, but there are other factors that muddy the situation. For example, rerolls or attack bonuses would disproportionately help out Rain of Blows, because anything that helps you land the initial attacks means that you'll get more secondary attacks. Damage bonuses (e.g. the +4 from Kensei) also help Rain of Blows more, since you get to apply them on every hit.

(Note that the "average damage" I'm listing is the average damage when you hit. For true average damage, all those numbers should be multiplied by your chance to hit, but that doesn't affect their relative values.)
 

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Zurai

First Post
You don't get four attacks with Rain of Blows. I'm actually pretty sure that you only even get the second attack if you have the appropriate weapon, though it is easy to interpret the other way too. I'm certain you don't get the secondary on both attacks if you do indeed get two primary attacks.
 

TimeOut

First Post
The Weapon:-Line is indented below the Hit:-Line. You gain only one secondary attack after you hit with the first attack and if you wield the correct weapon.
 

On Puget Sound

First Post
The line that says: "ATTACK: Strength vs AC, two attacks" simply alerts you that there is (or might be) a secondary attack. It's the same format followed in all the powers that grant secondary attacks. I think you may be reading it as if it gave two primary attacks, each of which might have a secondary. That would, indeed, make it better than a 30th level power.
 

TimeOut

First Post
On Puget Sound said:
The line that says: "ATTACK: Strength vs AC, two attacks" simply alerts you that there is (or might be) a secondary attack. It's the same format followed in all the powers that grant secondary attacks. I think you may be reading it as if it gave two primary attacks, each of which might have a secondary. That would, indeed, make it better than a 30th level power.

Interesting. But all the ranger powers follow the same format (Twin strike for example).

Most of them don't specify a secondary attack, so what exactly is the meaning of "two attacks"?

Edit: And the ranger level 1 daily power Sudden Strike does not say "two attacks" but includes a secondary attack.

I would assume that "two attacks" in the Attack:-Line are really two individual attacks (against the same target, unless Target: says otherwise).
 

GoodKingJayIII

First Post
I think you get two attacks no matter what (the Attack line says "Str vs AC, two attacks"), and if you wield a Spear you get a "secondary" attack, which is actually a tertiary attack. The wording is not very clear, but I think my interpretation is ok, considering the damage is only 1[W] + Str, you have to succeed on multiple attack rolls to deal more damage, and you have to have a specific weapon (none of which have a +3 to hit) and have a 15 Dexterity.

Maybe at 30th level this is a very good power, but at 3rd level it'd be pretty tough to squeeze out that kind of damage.
 

TimeOut

First Post
So basically that power works like that:

You make two Str vs. AC attacks against the same target. Each attack that hits deals 1W+Str damage and if you fulfill the conditions of the Weapon requirement, you gain an additional attack against the same or a different target.

So the damage ranges from Miss, Miss to Hit, Hit, Hit, Hit. Seems rather powerful, but the requirements are harsh at 3rd level.
 

OakwoodDM

First Post
kerbarian said:
(Note that the "average damage" I'm listing is the average damage when you hit. For true average damage, all those numbers should be multiplied by your chance to hit, but that doesn't affect their relative values.)

Yes it does. Assuming a 50% hit rate across the board, Rain of blows has a 75% chance of getting a third attack, which means its true average damage is

(22*50%)+(22*50%)+(22*75%*50%) = 30.25 damage

assuming the secondary attack is a single secondary attack and not potentially 2. That would change the maths to (22*50%)+(22*50%)+(22*50%*50%)+25%*((22*50%)+(22*50%)) = 33 I think. This maths I may be wrong about...

Meanwhile, No Mercy hits for

(64*50%) = 32 damage.

So the two are reversed except in the case of a fourth possible attack. Besides, by RAW, a level 30 character replaced Rain of Blows quite some time ago.
 

On Puget Sound

First Post
I sit corrected. After comparing it to other powers with secondary attacks, the "two atacks" line is unique. And the indented text indicates that the chance to roll a secondary is a consequence of hitting witha primary attack, so it appears four hits are indeed possible; TimeOut and the OP are correct.

Compare Giant's Wake at 13th level, though... one primary, and if it hits you get N secondaries, where N is the number of foes adjacent to the primary target and within your melee reach. With most axes that would be a maximum of four, but with a halberd you could reach any foes unwise enough to be packed in behind your target as well - a maximum of 8 secondaries given ideal placement and stupid foes (zombies)
 
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TimeOut

First Post
On Puget Sound said:
With most axes that would be a maximum of two, but with a halberd you could reach any foes unwise enough to be packed in behind your target as well - a maximum of 7 secondaries given ideal placement on a diagonal!

Ouch. "Halberds are the new shotgun".
 

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