D&D (2024) The Hit Dices (Hit Points) used in classes don't make sense.

[Hayato]

To better exemplify the impacts of what I am proposing in my post, I am presenting below a simple table showing the features of 3 gishs options. Remembering that spellcasters and half-casters have the ability to heal themselves or allies, which virtually increases their Hit Points.

Class	Type	Sub-type	Features	Cantrip	Spellslots	AC	HP	Primary	Secondary	Tertiary	Level
Fighter	Martial	1/3 caster	Fighting style; second wind; action surge; weapon bond; war magic	2	4 - LVL 1; 2 - LVL 2	17/18/19	74	STR/DEX 20	INT 18	CON 14	08
Paladin	Half-caster	Half-caster	Divine sense; divine smite; fighting style, lay on hands, channel divinity (abjure and vow of enmity); relentless avenger; aura of protection; extra attack; subclass spells	0	4 - LVL 1; 2 - LVL 3	17/18/19	56	STR/DEX 20	CHA 16	CON 14	08
Wizard	Spellcaster	Fullcaster	Arcane recovery; training in war and song; bladesong; extra attack	4	4 - LVL 1; 2 - LVL 3; 3 LVL 3; 2 LVL 4	18	41	INT 20	DEX 16	CON 14	08

 

[Vaalingrade]

Remembering that spellcasters and half-casters have the ability to heal themselves or allies, which virtually increases their Hit Points.

Wait, aren't we still insisting the arcane healing is bad and wrong while ignoring the bard?

 

[TreChriron]

First off, Hit Points are not health. They are grit, skill, luck, and combat prowess. It's a measure of how long you can stand-up in a fight. The only "health" aspect of hit points (IMHO) is when you fall unconscious at 0 AND you're dying. Which makes zero sense to me. It's too abrupt. One of my main complaints about D&D is this whole "I'm Out, I'm In, I'm Out" rollercoaster where people go down, get back a HP, and then are back up like nothing happened.

Pathfinder 2e added the wounded condition that interacts with the Dying condition. You can search the InterTubes for a summary. It helps solve some of these issues, but adds more bookkeeping and instead of making unconsciousness abrupt, it makes death abrupt.

I believe that HP should be completely divorced from any concept of "health". I believe the Exhaustion mechanic holds the key to making a solid differentiation between combat prowess and health.

First, modify level 5 Exhaustion with: "Character falls unconscious. The character must complete a Short or Long Rest before regaining consciousness. When completing a Long Rest the character regains consciousness and removes one level of Exhaustion."

Replace level 6 Exhaustion with: "The character is dying and gains the Dying condition with the normal saves vs. Death."

For games that have requirements to complete a Short or Long Rest -- those would be required here as well.

Second, your HD (and HP) should be based on the average of your classes listed Ability Scores. If you have multiple classes simply average your scores for all Abilities in all classes. Something like (spitballing here);

• 7 or less = d4
• 8 - 10 = d6
• 11 - 14 = d8
• 14 - 18 = d10
• 19+ = d12

Finally, you add a level of Exhaustion for every failed Injury Save. Injury Save = CON save vs. 10 + damage inflicted. Failure = 1 level. Critical failure = 2 levels. This IS based on your overall health. The healthier you are, the better you are at avoiding Exhaustion.

• The attack reduces you to 0 HP. You don't "go down", you simply have to keep making Injury Saves for each hit until the Exhaustion condition knocks you out. When you go unconscious, you are down for the count. Healing WILL NOT make the character conscious until they have adequate rest (see above).
• Your opponent scores a critical hit. DO NOT double damage rolled. Instead make an immediate Injury Save.

Because Exhaustion is reduced by one level with a Long Rest, it creates a memorable impact without being too restrictive. It makes sense that someone might have to rest for 3 - 5 days after a terrible battle. It encourages establishing safe havens to get good rest. It also makes long forays into uncharted wilderness more terrifying. Parties will want to establish a "forwarding operating base" with retainers and experts to help secure a safe place from which to operate out of.

This also rectifies another pet-peeve I have with D&D combat; "beefier" classes have to protect "less healthier" ones. Heroes are heroes. They all should have something to offer in any pillar of the game. It's zero fun going down halfway through a fight and watching your friends continue playing. Let everyone duke it out until one side clearly wins. This may also encourage more parlay when the odds seemed stacked against one side or another. Your ability to stand up in a fight is based on your capability as a hero, not based on the strange correlation to health.

We will likely need to increase foes' HP by a percentage. I would test 10% increase and modify from there until combats felt challenging but not impossible.

 

[Horwath]

d6 - full casters
d8 - 2/3rd casters
d10 - half casters
d12 - martials

yes, fighter should be d12, same as monk

full casters should only be cleric and wizard,
2/3rd casters should be bard, druid, warlock, sorcerer

d4 dice needs to be deleted fro history.

 

[CreamCloud0]

d6: bard, wizard
d8: rogue, druid, sorcerer, warlock, cleric, artificer
d10: monk, ranger, paladin
d12: fighter, barbarian

i will be taking questions about my choices if you want to make them, i may not have answers for you though.

 

[dave2008]

As mentioned in the title above, the Hit Dices (Hit Points) used in the classes do not make sense, because they do not take into account the peculiarities of each class and its essence.

First place. It is necessary to consider the disparity between martials and spellcasters, as well as half-casters. With that in mind, spellcasters should have less health than half-casters and even more comparated to martials. Martials, in essence, dedicated their career to exclusively perfecting their body (and mind), unlike half-casters and spellcasters. For this reason, when they have to chose the path to know spellcasting, they are only 1/3 caster. It turns out that, today, this superiority is not reflected in terms of rules and features, as can be seen below:

1d6 (4 HP + Constitution modifier) - Wizards and Sorcerer.
1d8 (5 HP + Constitution modifier) - Cleric, Druid, Bard, Warlock, Monk and Rogue.
1d10 (6 HP + Constitution modifier) - Ranger, Paladin and Fighter.
1d12 (7 HP + Constitution modifier) - Barbarian.

As you can see, some distributions do not make sense, either in terms of balance in between martials, half-casters and spellcasters divide or in terms of narrative. For example, we have the Fighter, who has the same Hit Dice (Hit Points) as half-casters. The Fighter dedicates his class to a single direction - perfect his blows (STR or DEX) and body (CON). The half-caster, in another hand, devide his class to two directions - perfect their blows (STR or DEX) and body (CON) and spellcasting. Another example is The Monk and the Rogue. They dedicates their classes to a single direction too - they spend their entire lives dedicated exclusively to the perfection of their bodies and soul. There is no logic their Hit Dice (Hit Point) be less than half-casters. All-rounded classes, like half-casters, should not be better than dedicated classes, nor equivalent. Their power lies on versatility.

At the same time, I notice a concern in differentiating the resilience of Fighters and Barbarians. However, I understand that both complement each other despite their differences. The Fighter chose his resilience through armor and the Barbarian, in your turn, chose his resilience through resistance to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage.

That said, I do understand that the distribution of Hit Dice (Hit Points) should be reviewed, in order to bring greater balance to the game and try to mitigate, in parts, the differentiation between martials, half-casters and spellcasters and those that hover in the middle. Therefore, I present the following proposal:

1d4 (3 HP + Constitution modifier) - Wizards, Sorcerers.
1d6 (4 HP + Constitution modifier) - Warlock, Clerics, Bards and Druid.
1d8 (5 HP + Constitution modifier) - Paladins and Rangers.
1d10 (6 HP + Constitution modifier) - Rogue and Monk.
1d12 (7 HP + Constitution modifier) - Fighter and Barbarian.

I be down for this. I might even adopt it for my next campaign. Thanks! Though I am not really a fan of the d12, so I might go with:

1d4 (3 HP + Constitution modifier) - Wizards, Sorcerers.
1d6 (4 HP + Constitution modifier) - Warlock, Clerics, Bards and Druid.
1d8 (5 HP + Constitution modifier) - Paladins, Rangers, Rogue and Monk.
1d10 (6 HP + Constitution modifier) - Fighter and Barbarian.

 

[Clint_L]

Not really sure why this is in the OneD&D subforum, but I also don't understand why some full casters should have smaller hit dice than other full casters. Also don't like de facto nerfing the barbarian by buffing the fighter. But I guess every thread has to be at least partially about buffing fighters.

Note: the word "dice" is already plural. The singular is "die."

 

[James Gasik]

Not really sure why this is in the OneD&D subforum, but I also don't understand why some full casters should have smaller hit dice than other full casters. Also don't like de facto nerfing the barbarian by buffing the fighter. But I guess every thread has to be at least partially about buffing fighters.

Note: the word "dice" is already plural. The singular is "die."

I think the idea is, the closer to melee you're intended to be, the tougher you are. Clerics traditionally have a lot of touch range spells, so give 'em armor and d8 Hit Dice. Wizards traditionally hide in the back somewhere, so give 'em pajamas a spell that gives them magical light armor for 8 hours and a d46 Hit Die.

The fact that this remains constant when the Wizard picks up a sword and wades into melee and the Cleric wants to be a LaserPope is somewhat unfortunate.

 

[Peter BOSCO'S]

For a true old school feel, weapons don't do damage, weapons do "hits". If you have 2 hit points and you're hit twice, you are dying. Three hits and you are dead. PC's have total hit points = to Level + CON bonus.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Have you considered all sources of hp?

HD give you your hp, which come back every day, and you get 1/2 your HD back every day.
So HD is actually giving you avg die result x level x 1.5 of hit points every day.

So, d12 HD, is like 6.5 x 1.5 x level of hp availability every day. For a hypothetical 20th level d12 HD fighter, that's like 200 hp
on top of that, any fighter regardless of sub-class gets second wind, that d10+level, 25.5 on average, per short rest, assuming 3 short rests that's about another 100 hp. 300hp per day for the enhanced 20th level fighter.

The hypothetical d6 HD cleric, conversely, is only around 100 hp/day from HD at 20th. That's giving up 200 daily hp.
Of course, the Cleric gets spells, at 20th, 22 of them, totaling 89 spell levels. It just so happens upcast Cure Wounds, is 1d8/spell level. That's about 400 hp of healing per day.