The "iconic" characters -- time to for them to die?

[Akrasia]

Unlike some of my "distingusihed" compatriots, I think the current Iconics serve their purpose well..

If the purpose itself is insipid, it is hardly a defense of the iconics!

1.) The repitition of them serve as product recognition. At this point, we ALL know who Jozan is, even if we saw his picture in a magazine ad. .

As if the name "DnD" wasn't product recognitiion enough?

Anyway, I am painfully aware of Jozan now ... and I want to hurt him.

2.) It gives a sense of "community" to the D&D world. D&D is not a toolset, its a campaign setting. When Mialee is pictured in the Sunless Citadel and again in Forge of Fury, you feel as if these characters ARE adventuring and growing, not just random elf # 451475. .

This is a community?

3.) They give a good jumping off point for new people to customize the common race/class cliches, er combos. .

Yes, for those three players in the universe who did not see any of the Lord of the Rings films, or who do not have a passing familiarity with cultural archtypes like the "tough knight" and the "inscrutible wizard", the iconics do indeed help players with their characters.

4.) They look sweet as miniatures..

Er ...

5.) They can be used in product tie-ins (Scourge of Worlds?).

Huh?

6.) All in all, they aren't designed for players who grew up in the era of 1e-2e, they are new characters for the new generation.

Kids these days! This is what I'm really decrying: the corruption/degredation of the current generation that the iconics facilitate.

 

[Akrasia]

There's no need to get rid of the current Iconics. We just have to make them cooler by adding "the Chaotic" to their names and getting someone to draw a picture of them riding a horse through town and offing a random passer-by.

For example, Mialee the Chaotic could cast Finger of Death.
Hennet the Chaotic could also cast Finger of Death.
Jozan the Chaotic could cast Implosion, followed by Symbol of Pain.
Regdar the Chaotic could decapitate someone with his greatsword.
Krusk the Chaotic could decapitate someone with his greataxe.
Tordek the Chaotic could decapitate someone with his dwarven waraxe.
Alhandra the Chaotic could decapitate someone with her lance (it's okay, she detected evil first).
Ember the Chaotic could decapitate someone with a flurry of shuriken.
Soveliss the Chaotic could decapitate someone with a quiver full of arrows and Manyshot.
Lidda the Chaotic could also decapitate someone with arrows, and get sneak attack damage, too.
Vadania the Chaotic could wildshape into a tyrannosaurus, decapitate someone with a bite and then cast Finger of Death.
Devis the Chaotic could cast Greater Shout on Gimble the Chaotic.
Gimble the Chaotic could Use Magic Device to cast Finger of Death on Devis the Chaotic.

See? We can keep the Iconics because they are now Cool .

A worthy try -- but really, none of these cuties can pull of "the Chaotic" as well as the enigmatic and iconoclastic Emrikol. They just look too cartoonish to use the Finger of Death.

 

[Akrasia]

While we're on the subject...

ICONIC
(with apologies to Alanis Morisette)

A female elf became a mage, ...

This is funny.

 

[Orius]

Here's a site where you can look at some AD&D action figures.

http://www.toyarchive.com/Dungeons&Dragons/Figures/1stSeriesD&D.html

Anyone own them?

I had the evil wizard when I was a kid. I remember the staff, that became the inspiration for an evil artifact in one of my earlier, dead campaigns.

 

[MonsterMash]

Yes, let them die as long as I can kill them MWAHHHAA

 

[Kalendraf]

I've been playing since the 1e days. Art has always been part of the D&D books, but back in the old days it was fairly random. Certainly there were some good pieces of art including the "famous" one of Emrikol. However, the general artwork in many places left much to be desired, and it generally lacked a common style or theme.

I applaud WotC's emphasis on forming a coherent feel and style for their artwork in 3e/3.5. In order to facilitate this, the use of standard common elements allows artists to more easily work toward that goal. The creation of Iconic characters is simply one of those common elements. But rather than just stopping at the artwork aspect, iconic characters could be used for other things as well. However, beyond figurines, and a few other cameos, they haven't been used very much.

WotC has not done a very good job of designing or utilizing their iconic characters, which is probably one of the reasons why people have grown tired of them. IMHO, they made these characters far too bland, dooming them to mere averageness with the 25-point buy creation rules. Though that may help in making them easily accessible for playtesting and easier to model in the illustrations, these characters seem to lack the right qualities to qualify as true heroes. In the artwork, they always strike me as being 1st or 2nd level characters, with no real advancement. That may have been ok for the debut of 3e, but now years later, they seem stuck in time. Everyone else's characters and campaigns have grown up and leveled past them multiple times. Looking back, the iconics seem sub-par at best.

But is it time for their end? Hardly. What they need is an overhaul with at least a few more levels under their belts, and maybe some stat boosts as well. As someone else mentioned, tie-ins like the "Scourge of Worlds" choose-your-own-adventure DVD was a great use of the Iconics. I'd like to see more things like that. An online comic strip w/ the iconics might be interesting as well.

 

[Akrasia]

...

I applaud WotC's emphasis on forming a coherent feel and style for their artwork in 3e/3.5. ...

I would too -- IF the feel and style were any good! Unfortunately IMO it is not. The cartoonish/spikey look found in today's books leaves a lot to be desired.

The iconic characters embody all that is horrible with this style. They don't need "power-ups" -- they need atomization.

 

[RFisher]

I applaud WotC's emphasis on forming a coherent feel and style for their artwork in 3e/3.5.

I've seen some pretty good arguments against coherent art in the core D&D books. A lack of coherence in the art helps make the game feel more wide open.

Now, a book like the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting might be different, as its trying to convey the feel of a specific setting.

 

[Remathilis]

As if the name "DnD" wasn't product recognitiion enough?

Anyway, I am painfully aware of Jozan now ... and I want to hurt him.

Violence against fictional characters might be a sign you need to close the PH and take a nice, long walk...



This is a community?

Brain Fart: I meant CONTINUITY, by brain typed COMMUNITY. My bad.


Yes, for those three players in the universe who did not see any of the Lord of the Rings films, or who do not have a passing familiarity with cultural archtypes like the "tough knight" and the "inscrutible wizard", the iconics do indeed help players with their characters.

Right, all D&D did was give those archtypes names.

Huh?

The few things that have D&D name/liscence: the soundtrack, the CLUE game, the interactive DVD movie, etc. These all feature the Iconics. Guess whos going to be in the NEW D&D box set in Sept?


Kids these days! This is what I'm really decrying: the corruption/degredation of the current generation that the iconics facilitate.


Well, as someone who played 3 years of Cyclopedia D&D and 7 years of AD&D 2nd Ed, I don't think I qualify as one of those "kids". Sorry I missed 1e, I wasn't born yet.

Sigh, between the D&D boards that can't stand "turd edition" and the Star Wars boards that begroan every little change made to the "Holy Trilogy" (TM), I can get real tired of this OLD = BETTER mentality.

I'm out.

 

[Testament]

I would too -- IF the feel and style were any good! Unfortunately IMO it is not. The cartoonish/spikey look found in today's books leaves a lot to be desired.

grrrr. I'm still trying to work out where the old schoolers are pulling this cartoony/anime/comic styling idea from. I look at Lockwood, Spencer and Wood's artwork and I'm not seeing it. And I'm trying!

Heck, I'd say this ed has the best art of any to date (with the exception of that hack Jarvis, and probably Crabapple). And I've seen 1 and 2E art, or whatever passed for it then. Blue and white printing people! Blue and white!