The Immortals Handbook

[historian]

Howdy Krust!

Well I wanted to have a near-omnipotent super monster relative to every dimension (I have the dimensions* mapped using the kabbalah). So I have a group of mega beings called the Chronocrators who police one of the dimensions.

*Dimensions are not the same as planes in case you were wondering.

This sounds particularly cool. Do you envision the dimensions encompassing multiple realities? How about the super monsters?

BTW - I like the name Thanatos - sounds Freudian.

Take care.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi CRGreathouse mate!

The +80 for the greater deity template stacks with the CR adjustments from the other templates, right? A greater god would have CR = racial CR + class levels + demideity CR + ... + greater deity CR, right?

No. The Divinity Templates overlap each other. So when you go from Demigod to Lesser God you lose the Demi-deity Template and gain the Lesser Deity Template.

Of course everything in the previous template is included in the next template also, so theres no 'chopping and changing'.

Have you posted an example of a Transcendent Gift yet?

I think I mentioned one a while back called Supremacy which adds the power of any single opponent to your own.

How powerful are they, relative to Cosmic Gifts and Omnific Gifts?

Well to try and put things into perspective.

You'll find parallels between Divine Abilities and some monster abilities in the Monster Manual.

You'll find parallels between Cosmic Abilities and some monster abilities in the Epic Level Handbook (the Winter Wights permanent damage for example).

You may find one or two Transcendant abilities amongst the most powerful abilities wielded by the monsters in the ELH (the Colossus Anti-Magic Field being one example).

You won't find anything like the Omnific Abilities anywhere.

Duck and run for cover when you see the Metempiric Abilities.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Krust!

Hiya historian mate!

This sounds particularly cool.

Hey thanks.

Do you envision the dimensions encompassing multiple realities?

Well there are your basic six dimensions (which are actually eight I suppose since one will have length; breadth and depth) and then there are three higher dimensions.

I don't really want to give anything away; but its sort of D&D Great Wheel cosmology meets the Kabbalah meets the Book of Enoch.

But don't worry, all your favourites will still be there.

How about the super monsters?

They are fine thanks for asking.

BTW - I like the name Thanatos - sounds Freudian.

Well its from Greek Mythology and refers to Death.

Take care.

You too mate.

 

[CRGreathouse]

No. The Divinity Templates overlap each other. So when you go from Demigod to Lesser God you lose the Demi-deity Template and gain the Lesser Deity Template.

Of course everything in the previous template is included in the next template also, so theres no 'chopping and changing'.

So... something like this, maybe? (You don't need to answer this one.)

Demi +30
Lesser +45?
Intermediate +60?
Greater +80

I think I mentioned one a while back called Supremacy which adds the power of any single opponent to your own.

That's Transcendent? I guess I was confused by the name change with Omnific...

You'll find parallels between Divine Abilities and some monster abilities in the Monster Manual.

You'll find parallels between Cosmic Abilities and some monster abilities in the Epic Level Handbook (the Winter Wights permanent damage for example).

You may find one or two Transcendant abilities amongst the most powerful abilities wielded by the monsters in the ELH (the Colossus Anti-Magic Field being one example).

You won't find anything like the Omnific Abilities anywhere.

Duck and run for cover when you see the Metempiric Abilities.

Hmm, this makes me wonder if I had the god breakdown correct. I thought the system was:

Immortal/Divine God (demi-greater) --- Divine Gift
Sidereal/Cosmic God --- Cosmic Gift
Eternal/Time Lord --- Transcendent Gift (formerly Omnific Gift)
Supernal/Overgod --- Omnific Gift (formerly Metempiric Gift)

Where do Metempiric Gifts fit in now -- and what's wrong with my above listing?

What are the four Eternal templates called? Who is John Galt?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi CRGreathouse matey!

So... something like this, maybe? (You don't need to answer this one.)

Demi +30
Lesser +45?
Intermediate +60?
Greater +80

Lesser = CR +40.

That's Transcendent? I guess I was confused by the name change with Omnific...

Yeah I changed that a while back; I moved the 'Omnific' powers up because thats when the powers actually became 'omnific', you'll see.

Hmm, this makes me wonder if I had the god breakdown correct. I thought the system was:

Immortal/Divine God (demi-greater) --- Divine Gift
Sidereal/Cosmic God --- Cosmic Gift
Eternal/Time Lord --- Transcendent Gift (formerly Omnific Gift)
Supernal/Overgod --- Omnific Gift (formerly Metempiric Gift)

Well Supernals are not Overgods (though I suppose anything above Immortal is technically an Overgod).

after Supernal there is...

Akashic Memory --- Metempiric Gift

Remember also that deities can take Gifts from the next highest level. So Immortals can take Cosmic Gifts etc.

Where do Metempiric Gifts fit in now -- and what's wrong with my above listing?

See above.

What are the four Eternal templates called?

There are only two now.

4 Immortal
3 Sidereal
2 Eternal
1 Supernal

Previously I had ranks for the sake of ranks. Now they all specifically mean something.

Who is John Galt?

Why are you asking me?

 

[CRGreathouse]

Well Supernals are not Overgods (though I suppose anything above Immortal is technically an Overgod).

after Supernal there is...

Akashic Memory --- Metempiric Gift

Akashic Memory? Is this some sort of singular entity, or is this, somehow, a 'class' of beings?

There are only two now.

4 Immortal
3 Sidereal
2 Eternal
1 Supernal

Previously I had ranks for the sake of ranks. Now they all specifically mean something.

I'm glad to see that you've reduced the number of ranks. What does that do for Sidereal? Before you had Elder One, Old One, First One, and High One... did you drop one from this classification, or did you scrap your earlier work and come up with three new classes?

Why are you asking me?

It's just the classic unanswerable question (from Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged). I asked it because I thought I was asking too many questions.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate!

Akashic Memory? Is this some sort of singular entity, or is this, somehow, a 'class' of beings?

Its an energy source.

I'm glad to see that you've reduced the number of ranks.

Me too.

Theres no point in having ranks for their own sake, each should mean something significant.

What does that do for Sidereal? Before you had Elder One, Old One, First One, and High One... did you drop one from this classification, or did you scrap your earlier work and come up with three new classes?

Well I dropped the High One, and gave more focus to the other three.

It's just the classic unanswerable question (from Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged). I asked it because I thought I was asking too many questions.

He he! Never mate, never.

 

[CRGreathouse]

An energy source... Is it sentient? Has it a form, physical or otherwise?

On a different, but related,topic:
When Andy revised the SRD, he updated three feats (meaningfully; many were changed for neatness) that were changed in the CW or MiniHB.

What do you think of these changes? Epic Toughness changed from +20 hp to +30 hp; Armor Skin changed from +2 natural armor to +1 natural armor; Spellcasting Harrier changed from "casters take a penalty on Concentration checks" to "casters provoke automatically; you get +4 to hit".

Personally, I liked the Epic Toughess change but hate the other two.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

An energy source... Is it sentient? Has it a form, physical or otherwise?

Its semi-sentient.

Lets just say its the WAY, but not the WILL.

On a different, but related,topic:
When Andy revised the SRD, he updated three feats (meaningfully; many were changed for neatness) that were changed in the CW or MiniHB.

What do you think of these changes? Epic Toughness changed from +20 hp to +30 hp;

Seems fair I suppose. Toughness (in general) would work a lot better if they made it +1 hp/level though.

Armor Skin changed from +2 natural armor to +1 natural armor;

Well thats just a mistake (as my CR system proves).

However, unless the character actually takes on the semblance of having tougher skin they should never be allowed this ability as it undermines what 'natural armour ' actually means.

Spellcasting Harrier changed from "casters take a penalty on Concentration checks" to "casters provoke automatically; you get +4 to hit".

Not sure about that one to be honest.

Personally, I liked the Epic Toughess change but hate the other two.

I could live without them all. However, they were not the most alarming feats in the book.

Damage Reduction; Multispell and Improved Metamagic are most likely to lead to abuse.

You could probably get away with Damage Reduction provided you make DR supernatural.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Damage Reduction; Multispell and Improved Metamagic are most likely to lead to abuse.

You could probably get away with Damage Reduction provided you make DR supernatural.

I ran a 40th level character once (just to test the system), a Ftr10/Dwarven Defender30. His damage reduction, between class and feats, was very high -- but it didn't matter very much, as it was still just a small fraction of the total damage he was taking.

Multispell is good, but without the feat-intensive Automatic Quicken Spell, it's hard to make it useful. Improved Metamagic is most certainly abusable, though; how would you prefer to see it changed?

As for Armor Skin, I think it's good at +2. You seem to think it's not good enough at +2. What value do you think is fair?