The Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hey S'mon!

I suggest roughly that a 100lb mass should do 10d6 on a hit, 200lb 20d6, and so on, but U_K disagrees with my finding that energy & mass is proportional to hit points & damage in D&D. If you look at the classic line of Gygaxian humanoids orcs/hobgoblins-gnolls-bugbears-ogres-trolls you find that hit points do scale linearly with mass; giants have about twice as many hp as they should though. Likewise dragon and other 'animal' hp seem to scale fairly linearly although hit dice don't.

I'd be interested to see that catapult damage reverse engineered back to a sling, just like you did with the X-bow damage.

Regarding X-Bows, obviously the official base damages are much too low.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Regarding X-Bows, obviously the official base damages are much too low.

The official reload times are much too short, though. As it stands a human Ftr1 can fire 20 times per minute with a light crossbow, and even a commoner can fire a heavy crossbow 10 times per minute. Heck, an untrained crossbowman with Dex 3 and Str 3 can fire a heavy crossbow 5 times per minute....

Considering that 10-12 arrows per minute is considered a good rate of fire with a *longbow*, this is a little crazy. A decent crossbowman would get perhaps a quarter as many.

 

[S'mon]

The official reload times are much too short, though. As it stands a human Ftr1 can fire 20 times per minute with a light crossbow, and even a commoner can fire a heavy crossbow 10 times per minute. Heck, an untrained crossbowman with Dex 3 and Str 3 can fire a heavy crossbow 5 times per minute....

Considering that 10-12 arrows per minute is considered a good rate of fire with a *longbow*, this is a little crazy. A decent crossbowman would get perhaps a quarter as many.

Yeah, the official x-bows only make sense as both being what would in historical terms be considered 'light' crossbows that can be loaded with a simple lever-action, not winch-winch-winch. Base fire rates are 10 & 5/minute compared to bow's 10/minute, rapid-reload makes it 10/minute for both compared to rapid shot giving the bowman 20/minute - which is itself pretty ridiculous - IRL a trained longbowman firing at an enemy _formation_ can fire 12/minute, but that's firing for speed not accuracy; with aimed shots at a man-sized target the fire rate is around 6/minute.

One conclusion I've reached BTW is that the D&D 3e combat round makes much more sense if it's considered to be 12 seconds rather than 6, this goes for a lot of other factors too, including the action-reaction cycle and movement.

 

[S'mon]

Hey S'mon!

I'd be interested to see that catapult damage reverse engineered back to a sling, just like you did with the X-bow damage.

I'd assume a slingstone's base d4 damage includes a factor for accuracy as well as kinetic energy, though the KE compares pretty favourably to a rifle bullet; a better comparison might be to a musket round - similar size, lower velocity. My damage suggestion for catapults is a suggested realistic minimum for 'large object drops from sky' onto PC (or dragon)'; a slingstone fired with aim will do more damage. I'd also suggest that a catapult or cannon 'grapeshot' attack - historically very popular as an anti-personnel weapon - will do a good deal of damage to potentially a large body of men, something like 1d6 AB +0 attacks each doing 1d6 damage to everyone in a 20'x20' area would seem reasonable for a light catapult, 30'x30' area fior heavy catapult, maybe increase to AB +5 and 2d6 damage for cannon, given its higher velocity - catapult attacks will likely be at terminal velocity or less.

 

[S'mon]

Cool article on the IH site, Craig. I forgot the Mind Flayers - AIR the outer levels were guarded by Verbeegs, who you chopped through pretty easily aided by your gold dragon's gas-breath (grrr)! Though I do remember the 'Killing Machine' creature - its XPV worked out as over 10,000, in 1e AD&D DMG rules where orcs were worth 10 XP + 1/hp, ogres 95 +5/hp, demon lords had (suspiciously round) XPVs of 20,000, 40,000 etc. It was at the time the biggest XP dump you guys (low-mid level PCs) had ever got from a monster by a long way AIR, even though levelling needed far far more XP than it does now.
I also remember that was the scenario where I had a suit of +4 platemail lying unattended in a stream - can't remember if anyone ever found it...

 

[Fieari]

Hey Krust, your sermon on why gods SHOULD have stats is down, and I wanted to link to it in this thread. More people spouting that gods should never have stats, and that the only purpose to stats is so that players can kill them, etc...

 

[Anabstercorian]

Something I've been reading in this thread that's been making me leery of the final product, frankly, is the willingness to push WoTC's design decisions aside when they strike you as inferior to your own. S'mon, Upper Krust, you guys do realize that, quality or not, that's the baseline we all play to, and if you start ignoring it and building your assumptions on what you think SHOULD be as opposed to what IS, you're going to produce a product that meshes very awkwardly with DnD as it is envisioned in the core rules...

I'm still going to buy the product, but I'd love some reassurance on this issue.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi S'mon!

Cool article on the IH site, Craig.

He he!

Brings back the memories! I mentioned to Bob if he had any Mirv Sheelan stories or anecdotes that I would post them too. Although since most of his would probably show him in a bad light anyway...like that time he actually waited for Hel to appear after he had killed her High Priest so he could teach her a lesson...or his tactics for use against Tiamat; boxing us all in so that we all took all of the breath weapons...from her and her consorts, admittedly he did have some highlights - sacrificing himself against Wotan was a master stroke; although of course the guv'nor still had to bring home the bacon...that was the closest fight ever too, a great victory.

I forgot the Mind Flayers - AIR the outer levels were guarded by Verbeegs, who you chopped through pretty easily aided by your gold dragon's gas-breath (grrr)!

Verbeegs, they must have been so easy I forgot them.

Though I do remember the 'Killing Machine' creature - its XPV worked out as over 10,000,

The only thing I remember was that it had 120 hp.

in 1e AD&D DMG rules where orcs were worth 10 XP + 1/hp, ogres 95 +5/hp, demon lords had (suspiciously round) XPVs of 20,000, 40,000 etc. It was at the time the biggest XP dump you guys (low-mid level PCs) had ever got from a monster by a long way AIR, even though levelling needed far far more XP than it does now.

Thrin was 6th-level at the time (I never forget a death).

We didn't start fighting Demon Lords until 8th-level. By the way who has that magic sword that was used on Graz'zt - the one you throw in the air and it pivots and impales the target...that was a cool sword? Did Thrin ever buy it off great uncle? On second thoughts I think I gave it to Vantor, it was the greatsword he used before he got the +5 vorpler. So Thrin must have it around.

I also remember that was the scenario where I had a suit of +4 platemail lying unattended in a stream - can't remember if anyone ever found it...

For purely sentimental reasons Thrin revisits the site (and of course with detect magic as standard)...does he happen to find anything? Oh and since I know you well S'mon - assume all defenses active*.

*Or as they say in Star Trek - "Shields Up!".

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Fieari mate!

Hey Krust, your sermon on why gods SHOULD have stats is down, and I wanted to link to it in this thread.

Sorry dude - I took that down for some reworking. I'll try and sort ito out over the next day or two for you.

More people spouting that gods should never have stats, and that the only purpose to stats is so that players can kill them, etc...

I'm sure they don't really mean it.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Anabstercorian mate!

Something I've been reading in this thread that's been making me leery of the final product, frankly, is the willingness to push WoTC's design decisions aside when they strike you as inferior to your own. S'mon, Upper Krust, you guys do realize that, quality or not, that's the baseline we all play to, and if you start ignoring it and building your assumptions on what you think SHOULD be as opposed to what IS, you're going to produce a product that meshes very awkwardly with DnD as it is envisioned in the core rules...

I'm still going to buy the product, but I'd love some reassurance on this issue.

Easy Tiger!

Remember those* were the changes to our 1st/2nd Edition campaign. They have nothing whatsoever to do with 3rd Edition nor the Immortals Handbook.

*Assuming you are refering to the shrine article?

I'm still going to buy the product, but I'd love some reassurance on this issue.

Trust the Krust!