D&D (2024) The impending mess that will be backwards compatibility

[mamba]

More just the idea that Coca-Cola took something everyone liked, replaced it even though no one was asking for it, and had the gall to label it as the "new and improved" version.

based on all the market research Coke did, it was the new and improved version since most people actually liked it better

“Far from the dud it’s been made out to be, New Coke was actually delicious—or at least, most people who tried it thought so. Some of its harshest critics couldn’t even taste a difference.”

Only to have that blow up in their face

that can happen to 5e too

“At its most fundamental level, the backlash wasn’t about New Coke at all. It was a revolt against the idea of change”

New Coke didn't fail. It was murdered.

The "Stranger Things" kid is right—it tasted fine. It died because of a Southern rebellion.

www.motherjones.com

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I find that hard to believe. I would definitely ask if I was DM. Also, if I heard them correctly AL will be 2024 D&D only.

I'd ask too. No way around it really.

This thread tangent is a response to some members who argue that 2014 and 2024 D&D are the same game so there's no need to differentiate between them. I'm trying to post some scenarios to demonstrate that we some way to tell the rules apart.

 

[James Gasik]

So, personally, I didn't care one way or the other about the New Coke thing; when it comes down to cola, I don't like Pepsi, but just about anything else is ok (though once I learned I was diabetic, all pop became anathema- sure I could drink diet, but who would want to? Bleah!).

I do have a friend, however, who has insisted to me for 30 years that Coke is superior to all other forms of cola. He had converted his garage into a man cave, and he had a Coke clock, old Coke vending machine (full of, you guessed it, Coca Cola), old Coke bottles- honestly, I think he's a little obsessed.

New Coke comes out, and all he can say is how much he hates it, "it tastes like Pepsi to me!".

So he decided that since the company didn't care about him, he didn't care about them. He got rid of all his Coke stuff. Then Classic Coke came out and he was satisfied.

So there's at least one case of a loyal consumer who was angry that a company decided to try and sell him something he didn't want. Make of that what you will, I was making a joke, apparently it didn't land, the last thing I expected was a debate about the merits of New Coke on an ttrpg forum, lol.

 

[dave2008]

I'd ask too. No way around it really.

This thread tangent is a response to some members who argue that 2014 and 2024 D&D are the same game so there's no need to differentiate between them. I'm trying to post some scenarios to demonstrate that we some way to tell the rules apart.

Some people will and some will not. I most likely will not when it comes to classes. I rely on, and trust, my players to adjudicate their classes. As I noted I before, I would let both druids wildshape into a condor at level 1, so...

I just worry about the rest of the world, not the PCs. So, for me, defining which version of the rules we are playing with is the same as handing over my house-rule list. Nothing new.

 

[James Gasik]

I'd ask too. No way around it really.

This thread tangent is a response to some members who argue that 2014 and 2024 D&D are the same game so there's no need to differentiate between them. I'm trying to post some scenarios to demonstrate that we some way to tell the rules apart.

I'm reminded of what happened when 3.5 came out, and despite it being a cash grab, everyone I knew bought the new books and switched over. Nobody was crying to play a 2000 Ranger, no player was insisting that they be allowed to have the original +2/+4 save DC feats for their casters.

The one guy I knew who had a Prestige Class from Sword and Fist just asked the DM if he could rebuild without it. It became pretty obvious that .5 was heading in a different direction, mechanically, and a less janky one at that.

But there are some people who prefer 3.0. I don't know why, but I'm not going to judge them; if that's fun for them, great. But I don't think any 3.0 fans are going to come tell me that 3.5 is the same game as 3.0. You wouldn't catch me saying it either.

"Backwards compatibility" is just corpo for "it's ok, we know change is terrifying. We won't take your woobie away, but come on, at least try a taste, you might like it!".

Sure you can adapt 1e stuff to play in 2e. If you really want to play a Lasher in 3.5 or even Pathfinder, sure, we can make it work. Heck, 3.0 came with a "conversion guide" for AD&D characters!

It was odd when my guy with 18/96 Strength now had a 22, but yanno, it kinda works, right?

Heck, I knew a guy once who converted D&D characters into Stormbringer. Never underestimate the power of a human to kitbash something. But just because The Primal Order works with both D&D and White Wolf, I wouldn't say those two games are compatible, lol.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I'd ask too. No way around it really.

This thread tangent is a response to some members who argue that 2014 and 2024 D&D are the same game so there's no need to differentiate between them. I'm trying to post some scenarios to demonstrate that we some way to tell the rules apart.

I don't think anyone is saying that there must be no way to know what book people are taking their options from. That's an exaggeration, whether it was ever claimed or not. What people are saying is: It is no harder than saying: "Your character can do what? Where did you get that from?"

Answers: "PHB (2014). Tasha's. SCAG. Xanathar's. LevelUp. UA. 1D&D playtest... PHB (2024)."

Heck, they may actually give it a better name. We don't need to know it yet, though.

That's it. Also, as always, any DM can chose to allow or disallow any of those sources, as they and their table prefers. Or follow AL guidelines, whatever those will be.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

So, personally, I didn't care one way or the other about the New Coke thing; when it comes down to cola, I don't like Pepsi, but just about anything else is ok (though once I learned I was diabetic, all pop became anathema- sure I could drink diet, but who would want to? Bleah!).

I do have a friend, however, who has insisted to me for 30 years that Coke is superior to all other forms of cola. He had converted his garage into a man cave, and he had a Coke clock, old Coke vending machine (full of, you guessed it, Coca Cola), old Coke bottles- honestly, I think he's a little obsessed.

New Coke comes out, and all he can say is how much he hates it, "it tastes like Pepsi to me!".

So he decided that since the company didn't care about him, he didn't care about them. He got rid of all his Coke stuff. Then Classic Coke came out and he was satisfied.

So there's at least one case of a loyal consumer who was angry that a company decided to try and sell him something he didn't want. Make of that what you will, I was making a joke, apparently it didn't land, the last thing I expected was a debate about the merits of New Coke on an ttrpg forum, lol.

But, as we've discovered, there is still a truth there that applies, New Coke or New D&D. Certain people will buy it regardless, some people will absolutely reject any change, and some in the middle are indifferent. Both Coke and WotC are probably only concerned about this last group - the group that may just decide to wander off.

Back when I was at AT&T, back in the day of cellphone contracts still, the primary focus I believe was only on the small sliver (3% maybe?) of Americans who didn't have cellphone service. They obviously weren't concerned about the people AT&T had locked down, and they didn't worry about the X% Verizon had under contract because those numbers were locked down in contracts - the only valuable real estate was the amount that wasn't under contract either by not having service, or by their contracts being up for renewal.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

Some people will and some will not. I most likely will not when it comes to classes. I rely on, and trust, my players to adjudicate their classes. As I noted I before, I would let both druids wildshape into a condor at level 1, so...

I just worry about the rest of the world, not the PCs. So, for me, defining which version of the rules we are playing with is the same as handing over my house-rule list. Nothing new.

I get what you're saying, but I believe the point that was being made was for the DMs who have to run AL out 'in the wild'

For example, a local bar here had been running D&D brunches on Saturday, noon til 2, Adventurer's League. The whole point of AL and what they allowed/disallowed was so that you had consistency between groups and were never in a situation where someone sits down with items/gear that were never available per the AL material, like a vorpal sword that was never in any AL module. AL is designed to be as close to plug and play between true strangers and tables as possible, in the same way the old TSR tournament modules were like the Slavelord Series.

 

[mamba]

I'd ask too. No way around it really.

This thread tangent is a response to some members who argue that 2014 and 2024 D&D are the same game so there's no need to differentiate between them. I'm trying to post some scenarios to demonstrate that we some way to tell the rules apart.

You are differentiating classes, / subclasses just like you would in 2014 or 2024 on its own. That does not mean you cannot have 2014 and 2024 classes in the same campaign.

 

[SkidAce]

Heck, I knew a guy once who converted D&D characters into Stormbringer. Never underestimate the power of a human to kitbash something. But just because The Primal Order works with both D&D and White Wolf, I wouldn't say those two games are compatible, lol.

+1 for the Primal Order.