D&D 4E The Intelligent Fighter , Thibault's Circle / La Destreza.

[Garthanos]

Although the using intellect in place of Wisdom for powers seems like it might work mechanically in a broad sort of way... without as much baggage as Dex.

Conceptually its a bit like predictive mental precision replacing perception

 

[Garthanos]

OK a couple of thoughts one was expanding Combat Agility to allow you to shift to exploit opportunity attacks options if they are in Dex Mod range not just if they are adjacent. And the other is a preemptive knock down if they do it while adjacent... the latter is weird I made it based on Int so the prediction and quick thinking get in the picture but perhaps it needs to be the damage mod instead of attack. Any way her is how they come out in Character Builder

 

[Garthanos]

An idea first considered with a 5e context

Battle Ready (new class feature - in 4e delete Wary Fighter - add Instinctive Fighter for CON initiative)
Many combatants are forced to react to a situation for the Fighter it really is just part of the plan and often at the forefront of their thoughts a fighter may use any mental stat for initiative Intelligence / Wisdom / Charisma instead of Dexterity.

 

[Garthanos]

Almost thinking for a good defender it needs something for its armor perhaps gaining this as an armor option w

...

 

[Garthanos]

Battle Ready might also be a Warlord ability

 

[Ancalagon]

One of the artificer subclass is a bit like the hexblade, but with Int...

(edit, I should mention that's in 5e)

 

[Ancalagon]

To wrap back to the original post, I *am* roleplaying a fighter who uses the Spanish style... and it's a dex-based melee fighter that uses a rapier and buckler and the battle-master subclass. It works very well with riposte and parry as his main maneuvres. He also took trip attack, and precise attack will be his next maneuvre.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I was thinking the one handed emphasis ... could be a good addition but I am thinking we may need new powers not just adopting the dex ones.

Well the 4e fighter, specifically was originally designed around S&B vs two-hander. TWF was added later (with a defender spin, vs the Ranger's TWF, and the Ranger also covered archery, while the rogue covered the lighter DEX-based styles... and got a Duelist build in Dragon, IIRC).

So feature would seem to be the place to insert a one-handed-weapon emphasis, an alternative to S&B, Greatweapon, Tempest, etc... it could swap in INT, and incentivize the single one-handed weapon.

AND It is possible to do a smart rogue in 4e and it generally comes off as ninja like (shadowy rogue) I would say that is stylistic rather different than a fencing master with unusually high survivability and a measure of cold calculating dangerousness so to my thinking doesn't do the trick for this Thibault's Circle smart fighter style.

What's the use of INT To the rogue in that case? No skill ranks or Combat Expertise preq like in 3e, redundant w/DEX-primary for AC/REF. In any case, the Rogue or Fighter question really boils down to Striker or Defender.

If it's just DPR, 4e rogue (except no use for INT), Essentials Slayer or Thief (w/Melee Training: INT and good DEX, though it'd be sub-optimal compared to going all-in on DEX), or 5e fighter (Dueling style, ignoring the shield/twf synergy and lack of anything to do with INT) could all serve. If it's more about maneuvers & tactics, a 3e fighter centered around Combat Expertise could capture some of it, but would still need a lot of DEX for the Finesse, an Essentials Knight (again, w/sub-optimal melee training:INT), or 5e BM (unfortunately Sentinel brings the shield back into it, & no use for INT), could all be RaW alternatives. Adding a Fighter build to cover the concept could be kept as simple as alternative Feature or two.

 

[Garthanos]

What's the use of INT To the rogue in that case? No skill ranks or Combat Expertise preq like in 3e, redundant w/DEX-primary for AC/REF. In any case, the Rogue or Fighter question really boils down to Striker or Defender.

The Shadowy Rogue build gets a fair share of powers with Int riders and feats too.

I made this one a big fan of Corellion with some feat selections and took Swashbuckler and some others to emphasize fencing instead of assassin options. A background that gave him history skill.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Adiah, level 12
Deva, Rogue, Rakish Swashbuckler
Build: Shadowy Rogue
Rogue Tactics: Cunning Sneak
Rogue: Rogue Weapon Talent
Background: Seeker for the Lost Clan (Seeker for the Lost Clan Benefit)


FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 11, Dex 20, Int 19, Wis 11, Cha 13.


STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 10, Dex 17, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 12.




AC: 26 Fort: 21 Reflex: 27 Will: 20
HP: 78 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 19


TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +16, Thievery +16, History +18, Acrobatics +16, Perception +11, Athletics +13


UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +12, Bluff +9, Diplomacy +9, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +8, Heal +8, Insight +8, Intimidate +9, Nature +8, Religion +14, Streetwise +9


FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Rapier)
Level 2: Disciple of Trickery
Level 4: Distant Advantage
Level 6: Corellon's Wrath Style
Level 8: Flash of the Blade
Level 10: Jack of All Trades
Level 11: Fleet-Footed
Level 12: Armor Finesse


POWERS
Rogue at-will 1: Riposte Strike
Rogue at-will 1: Gloaming Cut
Rogue encounter 1: Guarded Attack
Rogue daily 1: Duelist's Prowess
Rogue utility 2: Deadly Knowledge
Rogue encounter 3: Shadow Steel Roll
Rogue daily 5: Lurker's Assault
Rogue utility 6: Graceful Maneuver
Rogue encounter 7: Shadow Boxer
Rogue daily 9: Vexing Sting
Rogue utility 10: Familiar Footing


ITEMS
Haunted Drowmesh +3, Amulet of Protection +3, Leather Armor, Adventurer's Kit, Blade of Night Rapier +3, Dagger of Accuracy +2 (Thrown)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

 

[Garthanos]

A rogue bloodying enemies ought to be fairly frequent