D&D 4E The Intelligent Fighter , Thibault's Circle / La Destreza.

[Garthanos]

Basically adding in the book learning angle I think is exactly what this needs

 

[Garthanos]

(essentials characters with stupidly enhanced basic attacks would not have access to this, ptooey)

 

[Yaarel]

5e is a million miles from doing anything like this.

The main reason the Intelligence Fighter sucks, is because the Intelligence ability sucks.

If the abilities reorganize
• Strength-Constitution
• Dexterity-Athletics
• Intelligence-Perception
• Charisma-Wisdom

then Intelligence-Perception becomes a valuable asset to invest in.

Then, the Fighter can easily build as Charisma-Wisdom (military leader, folk hero) or as Intelligence-Perception (bodyguard, scout, surveillance, military academic, strategist, tactician, skill technician, engineer).

The solution is to review the ability score system.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The abilities are good as they are.

Intelligence is great, it just needs more explicit support for using the int skills for more than recalling information, and more archetypes that use it.

And 5e has all the room ya need for this archetype.

 

[Garthanos]

The main reason the Intelligence Fighter sucks, is because the Intelligence ability sucks.

I grant it is pretty much a dump stat for anyone not casting wizard spells. However In 4e it could be leveraged for many more things it seemed to encompass ability to think fast and predict and so useful for things very combat valuable if that is your characters style..

 

[Tony Vargas]

The solution is to review the ability score system.

I know that's a pet project of yours, but, no. I mean, it's /a/ solution, just sorta an extreme one.

I grant it is pretty much a dump stat for any non-wizard. However In 4e it could be leveraged for many more things it seemed to encompass ability to think fast and predict and so useful for things very combat valuable if that is your characters style..

Sure, in 5e, INT is prettymuch there for the Wizard, AT, & EK, and not much else. In 4e, though, it was a sorta 2nd-class DEX, and it's skills often mattered, so an INT-secondary build was perfectly viable. The Tactical Warlord stood as a sort of tactical 'smart fighter' from release.

 

[Garthanos]

Sure, in 5e, INT is prettymuch there for the Wizard, AT, & EK, and not much else. In 4e, though, it was a sorta 2nd-class DEX, and it's skills often mattered, so an INT-secondary build was perfectly viable. The Tactical Warlord stood as a sort of tactical 'smart fighter' from release.

Yeh it is arguably possible in 4e out of the gate ... What the Thibault build does is hit it home with the defender role as well.

 

[Garthanos]

I think I have figured out a method to let this really pop... and its something akin to how the swordmage can take a feat to get a spell book.

The int 13 fighter type could get a Book of Techniques. For the most part like a spell book however perhaps it comes with abilities that allow access to the alternates in the repertoire. Perhaps

inspired strike at will standard action: make a basic attack with int/wis modifier instead of strength and select an alternate encounter power from your repertoire that you can now use during this combat. Flavor wise "reduced to your most fundamental ability you mind reaches for something better"

While sure obsessing and studying your book in the morning might explain swapping out a power but.... the above seems better flavor.

I am working on the flavors of this do I call it "Student of Martial Ways" or "Educated Fighter" or "Science of the Swordsman" or "Thibaults Science", I am leaning towards the first two.

There is also whether to split this into 2 feats effect one for encounters like I have described with an at-will inspired strike gained as described above and one which governs dailies.

The second adds an encounter power that is highly restricted in function like inspired strike is except enabling a daily you arent currently focusing on this fight.

AND for more confusing terminology but which is better flavor you do not prepare exploits I have been writing this as focus on them ... Help I am way over using that term. See also using focus as the term used for martial techniques to ummm equip them (only some of them require it)... and the use of Martial Focus as how many requiring focus you can equip.

D&D does have a history and almost a tradition of using "level" that way

 

[doctorbadwolf]

With the Artificer coming soon, Int is getting stronger.

I do wish that the Inquisitive Rogue had more support for Int skills, though.

It helps that in my games, there are tangible things to do with Arcana, Nature, and Religion, and useful things for History, and Investigation is very important. I have experimented with adding Riddle, which is a sort of Int based social skill, but honestly it’s hard to remember that it’s there.

I’d love to see a Fighter or Rogue that has Unarmored Defense: Intelligence, and has maneuver style widgets that use Int.

 

[Garthanos]

With the Artificer coming soon, Int is getting stronger.

I do wish that the Inquisitive Rogue had more support for Int skills, though.

It helps that in my games, there are tangible things to do with Arcana, Nature, and Religion, and useful things for History, and Investigation is very important. I have experimented with adding Riddle, which is a sort of Int based social skill, but honestly it’s hard to remember that it’s there.

I’d love to see a Fighter or Rogue that has Unarmored Defense: Intelligence, and has maneuver style widgets that use Int.

Creating subclasses/archetypes which play off of non-caster use of Int as secondary is certainly a pretty doable route to supporting this. But I think since doing so you are fighting against the 5e design you have to do more.

Artificer is one of the classes wanting that Engineering skill I am implementing
(I am actually putting the skill Engineering in the 4e character builder)

I think that having more skills that play off of Int such as Investigation is a minor nod towards not-magic int use in 5e - I say minor because of elements of the system do not seem to give skills much potence. The 4e skills via skill challenge and virtue of everyone having significant advancement in them and skill powers and built in functions made them as potent as spells. So even transporting Investigation back to 4e would give it more chops though it would take some effort to figure out / insert all the support