The iPhone Will Kill D&D

[Dannyalcatraz]

Those of you who don't think this will happen, and soon, let me ask you something. Did you buy CDs? Do you buy them now, or do you just download a mp3 ? If you say that something needs to be superior to it's replacement in every way to become popular, and you admit to downloading .mp3s over CDs preferentially now, you've already defeated your point: mp3, by virtue of being a "lossy" audio format, by definition has less audio quality than the source used to make it. You've proven that, in general, convenience trumps quality. And it does so every time.

I, for one, just conceded that there will eventually be purely virtual tabletop gaming at some point, though it probably won't involve me.

But as for CDs? The only mp3s I own are ones I ripped from my own CDs. I don't use any of the download sites for music- not even for "bonus" material bundled with some of my albums or DVDs- and I won't.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

D&D 15e will be downloaded into your home's holosuite for hours of entertainment!

Where do I sign up?

 

[gribble]

A character sheet on an iPhone would be horribly fiddly - either a million pages, or you'd be zoomed in scrolling all over the place on fewer big pages.

I don't know about this - particularly with the way 4e works. Everything you need can be encapsulated on a few cards. Have you seen the character builder? It has an "overview card" with your characters basic stats. Add one for skills plus a couple of at-will "power cards" for basic attacks, and everything a character needs for a round could be held on one or two cards. Add a simple tabbed layout for holding the cards with drill down links for each power/feat/ritual card, and I could see a very usable and compact UI for a character sheet...

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

A lot of people are creating a big, fat, false dichotomy in here.

Just because you have a touch screen battlemat and character sheets on your PDA/phone/bionic implant does not mean that the interaction of those elements has to be hard coded in a way that takes away DM flexibility.

You are assuming it MUST be Neverwinter Nights, when all it needs to be is a board game with telepresence.

Sure, you CAN do it hard coded, where the computer knows how many spaces you can move, handles all the damage rolls automatically, etc.

But you do not NEED to do it that way. You could do it in a way where I tap my "figure" and then tap the location I want to move it, and it just moves, assuming that I and my DM agreed that move was acceptable (Or maybe it does it, but pings the DM's PDA to make sure it's legal). The DM taps "Allowed" or maybe hits a button for "Acrobatics check" or just says "We need an acrobatics check for Canis" and the computer hears him and rolls one or pings your PDA to request one.

You can make it just as flexible as D&D is now with one caveat.... if Jim Darkmagic starts adding hps to his PDA character sheet or erasing where he checked an encounter power as already used.... maybe it pings the DM to make sure that's correct.

Heck, each of those individual things can be done now. The only issue is putting them in one app and making table-top touchscreens available and affordable.

 

[Umbran]

A lot of people are creating a big, fat, false dichotomy in here.

Just because you have a touch screen battlemat and character sheets on your PDA/phone/bionic implant does not mean that the interaction of those elements has to be hard coded in a way that takes away DM flexibility.

The posit in the OP was:
"When you take the math away from the actual sitting of the rules and don't have to keep track of all the crazy stuff that players can do and how it impacts with everything around them, then yeah, the MMO experience of the rules being fully in the background will be realized. "

Which I read to be, "the machine handles all mechanics".

That prohibits the DM from injecting new mechanics, or effects which the coded mechanics do not allow for.

As a basic example: if the game did not allow for an effect that lasts a specified number of rounds (f'rex: most status stuff in 4e is "until save" not for a specific number of rounds) then such an effect either cannot be used, or must be tracked outside of the tool - which, of course, is going back and doing what you were doing before you had the tool.

Many people may be satisfied with having the mechanic imposed by machine. Many would not.

And, as noted before, if you try to code the ting so it is infinitely flexible, it will become infinitely unusable. That's a basic fact of UI.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

The posit in the OP was:
"When you take the math away from the actual sitting of the rules and don't have to keep track of all the crazy stuff that players can do and how it impacts with everything around them, then yeah, the MMO experience of the rules being fully in the background will be realized. "

...snip...

And, as noted before, if you try to code the ting so it is infinitely flexible, it will become infinitely unusable. That's a basic fact of UI.

Points taken. I think after reading the thread straight through rather late in the proceedings, my brain wandered somewhere slightly different.

In short.... I just don't think that's the way to go with the tech. We should be facilitating human-to-human contact. We should be leveraging the human capacity to stretch, distort, and shatter the "rules", not doing away with it. Simple telepresence would be enough for me. Telepresence of the game space with the die rolls tied in but the DM still adjudicating the rules would be the perfect system, IMO (note, since I haven't had a gaming group in a few years, I have no idea how close the DDi tools come to this now, as I have not subscribed. This thread just got me fired up about playing again, by getting old friends together across our various state, nation, and time zone barriers).

That's how I would leverage ubiquitous PDAs and touchscreens in a way that serves the game, anyway.

With the added bonus that you CAN have very pretty pictures or even 3-D projection, but don't NEED to have it. You can still build a dungeon with virtual tiles or draw it out on the fly by turning on the grid and "drawing" right on the screen with a finger.

And, really, there's no reason you can't have a button for "Tide of Iron" (simple, rules invisible interaction when you want it) but also give the DM the capacity to skip that turn and tell the computer what happens instead.

Yes, the DM's UI would be a big, fat hairy deal. There is a significant danger that it would be either too limited or too complicated. There might be all manner of trade-offs that would make it impossible in the long run, but on the face of it, for the players most of the "UI" would be completely abstracted to moving figures on the touchscreen.

Think about the Wii..... you can play a game that on other systems requires an 8 or 10 button control AND an analog stick... with 2-3 buttons and motion capture. A huge amount of possible inputs became super intuitive to the point where people in their 60s and 70s who never played video games in their lives are suddenly not just playing, but good at it.

A more intuitive way of building your UI would solve many problems for D&D, too. I'm thinking about the Eye Toy here, as an example. You could have board game telepresence right now with a webcam, and a phone line. But all the rules would still be tied to the board and the players.

 

[gamerprinter]

I disagree

I disagree with idea that D&D will go completely digital ever.

There would be a market, but I don't know how big. I don't own an I-Phone or even a mobile phone, nor do I ever plan to get one. Most D&Ders I know do have mobile phone, but only the young ones are concerned with anything other than a phone call. Some text, but most I know do not.

Those crappy tiny screens aren't good for anything - how one believes it will replace a book is nonsense.

There's been talk for a while regarding a touch screen DMs table. They are so expensive now, I don't see the majority of gamers even having access to such technology. Or even the practicality of developing one - I don't see it happening.

Perhaps books will only come in PDF or similar format, requiring users to print them out instead of viewing them digitally only. My players complain when I bring a laptop to the table now - I'm the only one who ever does that in my group.

I don't play MMORPGs, all those I know that do, do not play table top games, I think they are two very different animals. Those who play tabletop general don't do MMORPGs and those who do, don't play tabletop games. So I don't see everyone going digital as the final solution. That's a crock! If you think so, you just don't know the market.

Will D&D get more digital? Certainly, but not the path you're suggesting. I think tabletop may get less market share, but it won't disappear.

GP

 

[darkseraphim]

Cell phones are the first iteration of fully portable personal computers. Soon, people will be using these as their "mains," for all gaming, processing, calls, music, surfing, etc. Things that are inconvenient to carry, like a large monitor, full keyboard, mouse, etc. will become plug-in (or wireless) peripherals to the main CPU ... your phone.

When? I'd say starting in the next 5 years, fully realized in the next 25. Feel free to quote me.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Those crappy tiny screens aren't good for anything - how one believes it will replace a book is nonsense.

There's been talk for a while regarding a touch screen DMs table. They are so expensive now, I don't see the majority of gamers even having access to such technology. Or even the practicality of developing one - I don't see it happening.

There are videos in this very thread which give the lie to what you are saying here. It's most definitely incoming rapidly.

And, again, you could probably skip the touchscreen and just use an LCD mat and an Eye Toy or sensors such as the Wii uses. Those are all rapidly maturing (or even aging) tech.

 

[Kask]

When? I'd say starting in the next 5 years, fully realized in the next 25. Feel free to quote me.

I'll let you know when ANY player I've gamed with would rather stare at a 2" square screen while tapping keys, over sitting down at the table playing. If, you live to be as old as an elf I might find someone...