The issue of super strength

[sfgiants]

I am a big supers fan and am perusing the crop for d20 out there. The biggest concern I have with d20 supers is the issue of super strength. For instance: The Thing, is hugely strong. With a d+d style strength, he will always hit, and always do a ton of damage. The ton of damage makes sense (although I dislike the +75 damage type of thing). With his huge strength, he would probably have a +40 or something to hit. This just doesn't seem all that accurate to me. To make matters worse, I suspect that the damage would be 1d3 +75. Why roll?

My big question is how the crop of d20 supers game have handled this? I noticed that 4CTF seems to have tried a good system. What about the others? (I am mostly interested in Vigilance, Deeds not Words, and Mutants and Masterminds)

 

[RangerWickett]

Judging from the sample I saw at GenCon, Mutants & Masterminds doesn't have ability scores affect your attack bonus. Instead, you have an attack ability score. I may be misremembering, though.

In Four-Color to Fantasy, you can acquire two different kinds of super strength. One variety (Super Strength), which is cheaper, doesn't provide a bonus to hit. The other variety (Heightened Strength), which is more expensive, does provide a bonus to hit. Super Strength represents great force in impacts, while Heightened Strength grants you great muscle control to help you strike well.

 

[Morrus]

I think you'll find that nearly all (if not all) d20 supers games probably allow for super strength with no associated attack bonus. I'd be surprised to find one that didn't.

 

[Scott Lynch]

Howdy!

In DNW, lifting/carrying capacity at higher Strength scores begins to rise (past 24, these scores are multiplied by 1.5, past 30 they are multiplied by 1.2, increasing them well beyond the d20 standard), as does melee bonus damage, but the Strength ability bonus (and thus melee attack bonus) retains the standard d20 progression.

For example, a DNW character with a Str of 24 (the border score for genuine "super-strength") can carry a heavy load of 900 pounds, has an ability modifier of +7, and has a damage modifier of +8.

A DNW character with a Str of 25 can carry a heavy load of 1,350 pounds, has an ability modifier of +7, and has a damage modifier of +10.

A DNW character with a Str of 30 can carry a heavy load of 10,250 pounds, has an ability modifier of +10, and a damage modifier of +20.

Thus, in DNW, characters do not need to get ridiculously over-wrought melee attack bonuses (+40, +50, and so on) in order to punch holes in tanks and lift huge weights. The maximum ability score commonly dealt with in DNW is pretty much 50. A DNW character with a Str score of 50 can cary a heavy load of 390,000 pounds (just over 177 tons), has an ability modifier of +20, and has a damage modifier of +90.

Although I should add that a large DNW character (as opposed to a medium-sized one) with a Str score of 50 could carry twice as much, or more than 350 tons as a heavy load, and so on and so forth as you rise through the size chart...)

Yes, 1d3 +90 does look a bit silly. But it is funny, and you've no need to roll the d3 if the poor target is already atomized.

Cheers,

SL

P.S. Characters in DNW can also take a Complication called "Lummox," which makes their melee attack bonus unmodified by Strength-- a good way to create a strong but somewhat clumsy character.

 

[Vigilance]

In Vigilance, high strength affects attack and damage normally. However, to allow for the high lifting capacities of heroes in comics, without having characters with +40 to hit and damage, Vigilance's Superhuman Strength power has the Brawn sub-ability, which grants 100 extra pounds of lift carry for every power point allocated to it, and grants bonuses to Strength based skills such as jump.

 

[Scott Lynch]

D'oh! I forgot one thing! Super-strong characters in DNW use a different jumping chart than characters of ordinary Str levels.

Cheers,

SL

 

[NeghVar]

(past 24, these scores are multiplied by 1.5, past 30 they are multiplied by 1.2, increasing them well beyond the d20 standard)

Scott,

Looked at the charts in DNW...you sure the 30 and above modifier is only 1.2?

Thanks!

 

[Squirrel Nutkin]

In Mutants & Masterminds, all six stats top out at 20 -- past that everything is a seperate super-power. In Silver Age Sentinels d20 the stats progress normally past 20 just like they do in D&D. So in M&M a strongman might have a STR 20 and 10 ranks in Super Strength, while in SAS d20 that same strongman would have a STR of 70.

In M&M the only STR bonus to hit comes from the stat itself, so that strongman is only getting a +5. In SAS d20 armor works differently than it does in D&D (it gives you damage resistance) so STR doesn't give you any bonus to hit.

 

[JAlfredPrufrock]

I've had Vigilance for awhile now and I really like the way they do powers, superhuman stats included.

When you take a superhuman stat power, it adds 1-6 points to the stat it applies to.

Then, each power has power skills you can work on with power points (you getem when you level like skill points).

This includes the superhuman stat powers. So not only do you get a stat increase, but they work like a regular power too, with abilities like exrtra leaping for Strength and so on.

I can not wait for the print versiuon to come out

 

[RangerWickett]

Here's the strength information for one of the sample characters from Four-Color to Fantasy. She's a 1st-level fighter with the equivalent of 8 levels of super powers. Zidi Wheatling, the halfling titan, an example of super powers in a fantasy setting.

She has an effective strength of 50 for purposes of lifting, carrying, and throwing, but because of the powers she chose, she only gets a +6 bonus to-hit from Strength. I like Zidi, since she's a nice, versatile warrior. Not quite as tough in a stand-up fight as a pure fighter, but she has great options, like being able to throw wagons and trees.

Plus, with a running jump she can clear about 20 feet. And for a halfing, that is pretty impressive.

Zidi Wheatling, 8th/1st level Halfling Hero/Fighter: Female halfling; CR 9; Small humanoid (halfling); HD 8d4+1d10+27; hp 45; Init +2; Spd 20 ft; AC 19 (+6 natural, +1 size, +2 Dex); Atk +11/+11 melee (2d8+12/2d6+6, huge longsword/large longsword) or +9 ranged (varies, hurled object); SA Super powers; SQ halfling traits; AL NG; SV Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +7; Str 23, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 12. Note that Zidi’s effective strength for lifting, carrying, and throwing is 50.

Skills and Feats: Handle Animal +5, Jump +26, Knowledge (arcana) +3; Ambidexterity, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (giant melee object), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (giant thrown object), Heroic Powers, Iron Will, Leap of the Clouds, Two-Weapon Fighting.

Possessions: Flashy clothes, masterwork huge longsword, masterwork large longsword, bag of holding type II (in the shape of a hip-purse). She keeps her (sheathed) blades in the purse of holding when she’s not using them.

Hero Points (HrPs): 73.

Super powers: Rumors say that Zidi’s grandmother was fey, and this myth was the explanation given for Zidi’s disappearances from home for weeks at a time when she was a child. Zidi’s memory of these disappearances is hazy, but she can recall playing with faeries and wrestling with centaurs. Every time she returned from one of these disappearances, she would be inexplicably stronger. Zidi favors the fey for what they’ve done, though she doesn’t understand why they blessed her.

The halfling titan’s powers are magical, a blessing from the fey to a kind-hearted girl who they trust to protect them whenever they leave the realm of Faerie.

Enhanced Vision (4 HrPs): Mystical. Persistent. Zidi can has Darkvision 60. Base rank 2. Darkvision (2 ranks).

Gain Feat (2 HrPs): Zidi gains the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (giant melee object) feat.

Gain Feat (2 HrPs): Zidi gains the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (giant thrown object) feat.

Gain Feat (2 HrPs): Zidi gains the Leap of the Clouds feat.

Heightened Constitution (6 HrPs): Mystical. Persistent. +4 Constitution. Base rank 3. Increased effect (3 ranks).

Heightened Defenses (natural armor) (11 HrPs): Mystical. Persistent. +6 natural armor bonus to AC. Base rank 2. Increased effect x5 (10 ranks). Magical (1 HrP reduction).

Heightened Strength (11 HrPs): Mystical. Persistent. +8 Strength. Base rank 3. Increased effect x3 (9 ranks). Magical (1 HrP reduction).

Heightened Will (5 HrPs): Mystical. Persistent. +5 to Will saves. Base rank 1. Increased effect x4 (4 ranks).

Invulnerability (5 HrPs): Mystical. Persistent. DR 5/iron. Base rank 2. Increased effect x4 (4 ranks). Magical (1 HrP reduction).

Mighty Lifting (3 HrPs): Mystical. Persistent. Effective +15 strength for lifting, carrying, and throwing, and can wield weapons and carry items as if she were a huge creature. Base rank 2. Increased effect x2 (2 ranks). Magical (1 HrP reduction).

Rage (7 HrPs): Mystical. Persistent. Can go into a berserker rage as a free action, gaining +4 Str, +4 Con, a +2 bonus to Will saves, but a –2 penalty to AC, lasting 8 rounds. Zidi becomes fatigued afterward. Base rank 4. Increased effect (4 ranks). Magical (1 HrP reduction).

Skill Knowledge (3 HrPs): Zidi gains an additional 6 skill points, from her training by the fey.

Super Strength (11 HrPs): Mystical. Persistent. +6 bonus to melee weapon and hurled weapon damage rolls, and a +6 bonus to Strength checks and Strength-based skill checks. Additionally, an effective +12 strength for the purposes of determining how much she can lift and carry. Base rank 2. Increased effect x5 (10 ranks). Magical (1 HrP reduction).

Super Strike (2 HrP): Mystical. Persistent. Attacks can injure creatures as if attacking with a +2 weapon. Base rank 1. Increased effect (2 ranks). Magical (1 HrP reduction).