The Jedi Order. Some thoughts.

[Eosin the Red]

Jedi aren't paladins. They're permitted to lie, cheat, and steal at times. They don't have to be scrupulously honest. They don't have to follow the law all the time.

Ding dong....we have a winner. They aren't Paladins. The concept of a law other than the Force directing their actions goes against the philosophy they stand for.

We freedom loving beings that we are may not like this but it was apparently the way it worked.

It is also institutional arrogance, and not the first case we see in the movie.

 

[Umbran]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Jedi Order. Some thoughts.

Which is fine for you or me to do but not a Jedi. To someone continually being tempted by the dark side as I bet all Jedi are it would be a very bad thing to just assume and ignore the laws of where you are in favor of taking the quick easy path.

Ah, but in some ways it is easier (meaning less risky) to work within the system, rather than without. If they chose only to work within the system, they often would not be able to act in time to get things done, and people would suffer. Working within the system can be nice and relaxing, by comparison to putting yourself at odds with the locals. What the quick and easy way is depends on specific situation, rather than hard rules.

 

[Black Omega]

No indicators other than the completely pathetic and ineffectual types of attempts that were made. Jango Fett is supposed to be renowned throughout the Republic and yet choses such obviously pathetic methods? Jango makes mention that he has met Jedi before. He should know at least something of their abilities.

Of course, all Jango ever did was pass orders along to the changeling. She set off the bomb. She used the insect things. Jango was just there provide the trail back to Kamino and kill the changeling if she got caught. If Jango himself had been tryuing to kill Amidala, that would have been something else.

Finally why program to have your droid return to you after dropping off the bugs. A smart assasin would have it self destruct so that no one can use it the way Obi-Wan did, basically to trace right back to the killer. The attempts were designed to fail by Jango, his Changling subordinate may think they are genuine attempts but they are not..

Not much to say on this in the movie. In the novel it's made pretty clear it was programmed to come back simply because the assassin-changeling didn't want to lose the money it spent on the droid. Greedy and shortsighted, yes. Hardly proof the attempts were meant to fail. The changeling seems to have had no idea Amidala used doubles, Amidala could very easily have been killed by the bomb if she hadn't been lucky.

 

[Black Omega]

Ding dong....we have a winner. They aren't Paladins. The concept of a law other than the Force directing their actions goes against the philosophy they stand for.

We freedom loving beings that we are may not like this but it was apparently the way it worked.

It is also institutional arrogance, and not the first case we see in the movie.

I agree they are not Paladins. But they also clearly have rules beyond what the Force dictates. the Old Jedi order evidently had quite a few rules Luke's New Jedi Order ignore.

And I've yet to see any evidence from the movie that Obiwan was breaking any law other than 21st Century Earth law. It would not have been hard to bring up. you would not even need an extra scene, just take the movie as is and add a two second sound clip of Jango's voice saying "You have no authority here, Jedi." at the confronation on the launch pad. We can make any assumption we want as far as if it was legal or not, but it's just assumption unless supported by some evidence.

 

[Eosin the Red]

By and large agree with you MR. Omega.

The Jedi did not seem very....ummmm respectful of the law in the movies (which is ok by me). We do not know exactly what republic law includes, but we can make some basic assumptions. I have yet to see a police officer shoot some one and tell the crowd "this is police business, go on your way."

No desire to have witness's. No fear that they might be called to justify their actions. No medical attention. They obviously do not follow anything that comes close to modern democratic law?

It would be interesting to see what the limit of their police powers are. I suspect next episode will at least partially indulge me.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

By and large agree with you MR. Omega.

The Jedi did not seem very....ummmm respectful of the law in the movies (which is ok by me). We do not know exactly what republic law includes, but we can make some basic assumptions. I have yet to see a police officer shoot some one and tell the crowd "this is police business, go on your way."

No desire to have witness's. No fear that they might be called to justify their actions. No medical attention. They obviously do not follow anything that comes close to modern democratic law?

It would be interesting to see what the limit of their police powers are. I suspect next episode will at least partially indulge me.

Lucas has said that they are like marshalls in the Old West. Marshalls were pretty autonomous, and they could pretty much do whatever they felt necessary. It makes a certain sense that Jedi would have that kind of autonomy. The Republic apparently has no central police force or military. Everything is on the local level. Jedi (and, unofficially, bounty hunters) seem to serve to handle criminal activity that goes beyond a single system, as well as handling matters that are simply beyond the ability of local officials.

 

[Chimera]

Finally saw E4 today.

Best line not in the movie: Just after fighting Dooku and flying around like a maniac, Yoda grabs his cane and goes back to groaning and limping.

"Feel that tomorrow I will"


Are these Jedi morons or what? Not one of them ever thinks to carry a spare Lightsaber???

 

[Black Omega]

Finally saw E4 today.

Best line not in the movie: Just after fighting Dooku and flying around like a maniac, Yoda grabs his cane and goes back to groaning and limping.

"Feel that tomorrow I will"

Are these Jedi morons or what? Not one of them ever thinks to carry a spare Lightsaber???

My impression has been that Lightsaber's are considered a important and personal weapon. In keeping with Lucas's Japanese samurai inspiration for the Jedi Knighgts, it would probablty be a little like askinga samurai why he didn't carry two katana.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Are these Jedi morons or what? Not one of them ever thinks to carry a spare Lightsaber???

Except for the spare lightsabers tossed to ObiWan and Anakin in the gladitorial arena

 

[Doc_Subtlety]

I've read a disturbing amount of the Expanded Universe stuff (it's bad, but it's internally consistent - sue me ).

- Luke did have *some* access to the old traditions. When he first started his school on Yavin, he had a Jedi Holocron from a crashed Jedi ship on Dathomir. He and his students made an effort to study it before it was destroyed. (Long, long story involving a teenager even more whiny and powerful than Annakin.)

So, while he obviously doesn't know *much* about their history, he must know some bits and pieces.

- Spare lightsabers are uncommon at least partly because they are a great pain in the butt to build in the first place. You need rare crystals, and some kind of potentially explosive "firing" process (like with clay).

- Obi Wan's actions on Kamino are a non-issue, IMO. If it mattered, the aliens had an opportunity to try and detain him, or at least take it up with Yoda. They didn't say a word.

(And there's *no* way they didn't see what happened - the whole camera thing aside, Boba fired starship weapons out there.)