D&D 4E The (lack of a) Bag of Rats Problem in 4e

[chaotix42]

Is this conversation actually taking place?

*cries himself to sleep because he knows the next question is how many cages can 1 man carry*

 

[Harr]

A level 1 character can carry a giant rat in a cage in a burlap sack on my shoulder. Said rat being a lvl 1 minion worth 25 xp. Go ahead, tell me that a creature *I get significant xp for* isn't a meaningful threat.

If you're carrying it around in a cage, that means at some point you put it in that cage, which means at that point you had subdued it, meaning that you had already defeated it, therefore you have already gained the XP from the rat.

It's not a threat period, never mind a meaningful one.

Also, post #16.

The fallacy here is not whether you can carry around a rat or not, it's the fantasizing presumption that a player can use logic to corner a DM into being bullied by them. Not gonna happen

 

[FadedC]

A level 1 character can carry a giant rat in a cage in a burlap sack on my shoulder. Said rat being a lvl 1 minion worth 25 xp. Go ahead, tell me that a creature *I get significant xp for* isn't a meaningful threat.

I doubt you'd get xp for killing a caged rat. But if you did that gives a whole new way to level up.....rat farms!

 

[see]

I doubt you'd get xp for killing a caged rat. But if you did that gives a whole new way to level up.....rat farms!

"So, why is there this complex of tunnels underneath the city?"

"Well, the city fathers realized we needed champions to keep the town from being overrun by all the dangerous things out there. Well, you know how small and poor the place is, we couldn't convince anybody of significance to settle down here. So, we decided to raise our own; we built these tunnels, and then bought some kobold eggs from an adventurer, and left 'em underground."

"Wait, you brought orphan kobolds in to defend the town?"

"No, no. Every few years, what we do is arm a group of town youths and send them down there, to slaughter all the kobolds they can find, but with strict instructions not to break any kobold eggs. They come back out a few days lader as blooded heroes, ready to defend the town. Of course, they eventually move on to bigger things; then we arm another bunch of kids and send /them/ down."

 

[Jack Colby]

Good grief. Are there players actually dense enough to, in all seriousness and hopes of the DM allowing it, attempt the bag of rats thing? And are there DMs who are at all puzzled by what they should do about it? If this is a problem that needs addressing, I weep for modern DMs. They don't deserve the title.

 

[Pistonrager]

"So, why is there this complex of tunnels underneath the city?"

"Well, the city fathers realized we needed champions to keep the town from being overrun by all the dangerous things out there. Well, you know how small and poor the place is, we couldn't convince anybody of significance to settle down here. So, we decided to raise our own; we built these tunnels, and then bought some kobold eggs from an adventurer, and left 'em underground."

"Wait, you brought orphan kobolds in to defend the town?"

"No, no. Every few years, what we do is arm a group of town youths and send them down there, to slaughter all the kobolds they can find, but with strict instructions not to break any kobold eggs. They come back out a few days lader as blooded heroes, ready to defend the town. Of course, they eventually move on to bigger things; then we arm another bunch of kids and send /them/ down."

Have you been reading my campaign notes?

 

[FadedC]

Good grief. Are there players actually dense enough to, in all seriousness and hopes of the DM allowing it, attempt the bag of rats thing? And are there DMs who are at all puzzled by what they should do about it? If this is a problem that needs addressing, I weep for modern DMs. They don't deserve the title.

As you may have read earlier in the thread, no there were not. The bag of rats thing was always just used as a strawman argument by people who wanted to complain about the new system (3e or 4e). I'm not aware of it ever coming up in an actual game. Though I'm sure there must be one somewhere.

 

[BASHMAN]

Again, that gets into splitting hairs - something the DM ultimately has to just say, "knock it off, guys!" and be done with it. If they want to waste my time and theirs by using silly tricks, that's fine, I can oblige, but I really don't see us getting any gaming done...

I think a much better fix would be to say that outside combat you don't have to hit someone for your powers to work. You can use it once per short rest.

 

[Kraydak]

Good grief. Are there players actually dense enough to, in all seriousness and hopes of the DM allowing it, attempt the bag of rats thing? And are there DMs who are at all puzzled by what they should do about it? If this is a problem that needs addressing, I weep for modern DMs. They don't deserve the title.

Is the idea of a Warlock carrying around a (largish) rat in a cage to sacrifice for his pact really that odd? Some temp. hp. just before combat or a short range teleport are both nice.

 

[hong]

Is the idea of a Warlock carrying around a (largish) rat in a cage to sacrifice for his pact really that odd?

Yes.

NEXT!