The Latest Pathfinder 2 Playtest Update Has Dropped!

Along with the start of The Mirrored Moon, the fourth of the seven playtest scenarios which make up Doomsday Dawn, Paizo has released Pathfinder Playtest Update 1.3, which includes numerous changes plus a big update to the multiclass archetypes.

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Playtest Update
Today also marks the release of Update 1.3, which delivers a number of substantive changes to the game, including a revision to the Proficiency, DCs, death, dying, the Medicine skill, and revisions to a number of classes. But there’s one other gigantic addition:

Multiclass Archetype Update. Paizo has playtest material for all 12 of the multiclass archetypes, along with some revisions to the existing multiclass archetypes found in the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook. These additions expand the range of tools when building new characters. With these changes, players can now create a bard that dabbles in the strange mysteries of the monk, or a barbarian with a sorcerous lineage. Paizo put all of these archetypes in a document for ease of reference, the Multiclass Archetype Update. The playtest bundle, updates, and surveys are all free to download at PathfinderPlaytest.com.



The Mirrored Moon


Today, Paizo Inc. officially began The Mirrored Moon, the fourth of seven scenarios in the Doomsday Dawn adventure. It runs through October 8 as part of the worldwide, free playtest of the second edition of Pathfinder on both real and virtual tabletops.

The adventure sees a return of the characters from Part 1, now at 9th-level. In the years that have passed, these heroes have grown to be powerful adventurers in their own right, but the mystery that started all those years ago in Keleri’s basement has yet to be solved. In Part 4, they continue the quest in Thicketfell, in the faraway River Kingdoms.

“The heroes from Magnimar are sent to secure aid in the River Kingdoms, while looking for a place called the Moonmere, the home of an ancient Kellid wizard who has something to do with the ominous Countdown Clocks,” said Jason Bulmahn, Director of Game Design at Paizo.
 
Russ Morrissey

Comments

Arakasius

Villager
Because of how they're doing half orc and half human ancestry feats? That's an odd line to draw. In 1e those were explicitly tied to being half human (and similarly got all the human racial trait options) as well. It's basically the same thing but better. That's because them templating it this way allows for more flexible combinations in the future where they could allow a half-X to be applied to any ancestry.
 

Aldarc

Adventurer
That's a very odd hill to die on.
Because of how they're doing half orc and half human ancestry feats? That's an odd line to draw. In 1e those were explicitly tied to being half human (and similarly got all the human racial trait options) as well. It's basically the same thing but better. That's because them templating it this way allows for more flexible combinations in the future where they could allow a half-X to be applied to any ancestry.
I understand their design goal, but I dislike how this marginalizes the place of half-elves and half-orcs while also demanding a feat tax to play one. It makes them both just another variety of human rather than proper ancestries.
 

Arakasius

Villager
Blade of Justice change is actually decently strong change for a tanking build. I don't think Paladins really have a power problem more so than some of their options are just a bit uninspiring. I really don't like the righteous ally feat chain that just gives them enchants. Not because getting free enchants isn't strong. It is quite strong. It just feels lame and tacked on.

As for half races, well those ones were always more powerful because of having access to both races traits. (which is more so in 2e because half races can take the powerful level 1 human feats like the extra class feat) I can somewhat understand your point about the feat tax, but I think they are more powerful having access to 2 ancestries feats so I'm not against them paying something for it.
 

Kobold Boots

Villager
I understand their design goal, but I dislike how this marginalizes the place of half-elves and half-orcs while also demanding a feat tax to play one. It makes them both just another variety of human rather than proper ancestries.
I hear you, but how many people actually have historical events set up such that half-elves and half-orcs are actually numerous enough to be their own races living only with their own kind such that their society is significantly different from their human, elven or orcish ancestors?

I certainly never have, probably because the literature that originated such ideas didn't. So when Paizo does it I don't bat an eye at it.

Honestly, if a campaign setting I played in had enough half-elves in it to be their own thing I'd be expecting that elves themselves were almost unheard of due to some sort of plague or war and the half breeds stuck it out to "keep the dream alive"
 

MrHotter

Villager
I'm a fan of the Half-Elf/Half-Orc setup. I could see complaining if taking the half-race ancestry feat did not have any benefits. I think getting to add low light vision and extra move speed (or the other options you can choose) is as good as the other human ancestry feats that would give something like two more skills or better untrained skill checks.

I guess they could make the half-race ancestry feat be free, but then it would need to have a penalty (like an ability flaw) added to it along with the benefits.
 

barasawa

Explorer
I understand their design goal, but I dislike how this marginalizes the place of half-elves and half-orcs while also demanding a feat tax to play one. It makes them both just another variety of human rather than proper ancestries.
I still have to download and read the latest version of the PF beta, but that's a sidenote I just thought I'd point out in case there's anything in particular they've done in the new build.:blush:

Aldarc, please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't know what kind of place you think that halfbreeds have in the first place. They have traditionally been liked by players because that way they can have their foot in the door on two different races and get to use the racial specific items of both, but on the other hand, they are penalized by being on the fringes of society and never fully accepted by either of their parents races. :uhoh:

On the power building or min/maxing side of things, you aren't loosing a feat, you're picking a specific one that does give you MULTIPLE benefits. The half whatever heritage feat gives you a selection of abilities to take from your other parentage, and opens up ALL the other feats of that parentage to you as well. This is NOT a detriment by any means, unless of course you expected to have all those AND a free feat on top of that.
Sure, that weakens min/maxing thing, but designers squashing what they see as exploits is nothing new. Besides, now it also highlights that being half whatever no longer means you're a somewhat accepted yet watered down version of that race, but that you are also half human as well. B-)

Of course, like usual, this is only my opinion and take on the situation. :cool:
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I understand their design goal, but I dislike how this marginalizes the place of half-elves and half-orcs while also demanding a feat tax to play one. It makes them both just another variety of human rather than proper ancestries.
It's a playtest program, not a finished game. That's exactly what the process is for. If you're judging your interest in Pathfinder 2 on the playtest, you're kinda missing the point.

If you don't want to participate in the playtest process (and that's a perfectly valid position) just wait till it comes out next year and decide then.
 
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Arakasius

Villager
Blade of Justice's amount of extra damage is still a joke, though.
I agree it’s not inspiring. At level 11 the paladin in our group gets +3 from it. Which isn’t huge of course but then again there is almost no damage bonuses in the game. Barbarian is really the only class to get a decent static bonus with rage.

So so in the context of that getting +3 on all attacks is fine if you can get rid of the annoying action economy. Using one action a turn every turn for that is really not fun. This however seems to penalize the enemy decently for doing anything else than attacking the Paladin which seems reasonable enough. We will see how it plays. If they play positioning right it could make it very hard for me to attack anyone other than the Paladin with a marked enemy.
 
I hear you, but how many people actually have historical events set up such that half-elves and half-orcs are actually numerous enough to be their own races living only with their own kind such that their society is significantly different from their human, elven or orcish ancestors?
Traditionally they are rare. I don't believe they are common anywhere in Golarion.

A few settings have gone out of their way to make them common in a few places. In Forgotten Realms, Aglarond is basically half-elf-ville, and unlike most half-elf depictions I'm familiar with, they're not basically socially humans with an exotic background, who tend to be abandoned by prejudiced elves. (I vaguely recall a place where half-drow were common too, but I don't remember any details beyond 3e half-elves with darkvision.) In Eberron, half-orcs are common in the marshland (and one Dragonmarked House consists of humans, half-orcs, and orcs). I guess you could see the Dunedain of Lord of Rings as half-elves. (They have more human than elven ancestry, but also have a little divine ancestry as well. Almost like aasimar half-elves, I guess.) In that setting, elves wren't supposed to have different ears, but that vanished with the movies :)

I see little point of complaining about this particular change. Half-orcs vanished in D&D 2e, and gnomes and half-orcs in 4e (to start with) and I had no issue with the "missing" races playing either edition. I don't know if half-orc PCs ever officially appeared in D&D 2e (probably in some product I never had) but both races certainly appeared later in 4e.

And I don't see this as a "feat tax". Humans have bonus feats. If you're not a human, you have to give up the bonus feat.
 

Aldarc

Adventurer
It's a playtest program, not a finished game. That's exactly what the process is for. If you're judging your interest in Pathfinder 2 on the playtest, you're kinda missing the point.

If you don't want to participate in the playtest process (and that's a perfectly valid position) just wait till it comes out next year and decide then.
I am participating in the playtest, but I can also recognize from feedback from my table that this has been a major turn-off. I am not trying to convince others that they are wrong for liking this change, but I am expressing, and have expressed, my dissatisfaction with this change.
 

Koloth

Villager
The 'Feat Tax' could be a way to enforce a disadvantage on the 'half' races that is paid on character creation. The flavor descriptions in previous versions mention that the halves are often shunned by both pure cultures, especially the Orc variants, yet I have rarely seen that played out in game. The end result is the halves wind up being somewhat better then intended since the shunning and distrust disadvantages rarely show up. The halves would likely be less popular choices if they frequently got the "We don't serve your kind here" treatment when they entered a shop or even town.
 

Aldarc

Adventurer
I hear you, but how many people actually have historical events set up such that half-elves and half-orcs are actually numerous enough to be their own races living only with their own kind such that their society is significantly different from their human, elven or orcish ancestors?

I certainly never have, probably because the literature that originated such ideas didn't. So when Paizo does it I don't bat an eye at it.

Honestly, if a campaign setting I played in had enough half-elves in it to be their own thing I'd be expecting that elves themselves were almost unheard of due to some sort of plague or war and the half breeds stuck it out to "keep the dream alive"
Though not true "half-elves" per the lore, Numenoreans/Dunedain occupy that niche in Arda. Numenor was essentially "Half-Elf Island." I would say that Aragorn formed the literature that inspired the playable half-elf.

Khoravar are that common in Eberron, and the elves have not disappeared. Most elves are located in the island nation of Aerenal or Valenar, though they are also located throughout all of Khorvaire. Half-Elves are described as being common throughout Khorvaire, though they are more prominent in Valenar, Thrane, and Breland. There are two half-elf Dragonmarked houses: House Lyrandar and House Medani. Half-Orcs are common in the Shadow Marches and are part of House Tharashk.

However, my dependency on Pathfinder for playing a supported d20-based system for playing in Eberron has mostly disappeared with the new 5e setting guide.

What does give me some modicum of hope is that a lot of the feedback regarding PF2 ancestries has been critical of a number of its significant changes.
 

Kobold Boots

Villager
Though not true "half-elves" per the lore, Numenoreans/Dunedain occupy that niche in Arda. Numenor was essentially "Half-Elf Island." I would say that Aragorn formed the literature that inspired the playable half-elf.

Khoravar are that common in Eberron, and the elves have not disappeared. Most elves are located in the island nation of Aerenal or Valenar, though they are also located throughout all of Khorvaire. Half-Elves are described as being common throughout Khorvaire, though they are more prominent in Valenar, Thrane, and Breland. There are two half-elf Dragonmarked houses: House Lyrandar and House Medani. Half-Orcs are common in the Shadow Marches and are part of House Tharashk.

However, my dependency on Pathfinder for playing a supported d20-based system for playing in Eberron has mostly disappeared with the new 5e setting guide.

What does give me some modicum of hope is that a lot of the feedback regarding PF2 ancestries has been critical of a number of its significant changes.
Got it.

I hear you re: Aragorn as that was always my model for half-elf. I just didn't feel the influence of Numenor on the series beyond a flavor point so didn't think on it.
 

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