[+] The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - SPOILERS ALLOWED

[Paul Farquhar]

Well, no. Since Amazon is changing stuff left and right, it also could have been Eonwe, 1000 other nameless Maiar, the Valar, all the elf lords of Vanyar who came from Aman to fight in the War of Wrath, Gildor Inglorion and probably a few others.

I can't see any of them neglecting to inform Gil-galad "oh, BTW I whacked Sauron on my way home for tea".

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The Valar, Maiar and Vanyar would not report anything to Gil-Galad. They don't work for him and tend to keep things to themselves over in Aman.

Gil-galad was the leader of the elven forces they were allied with. They would not have withheld critical strategic information.

But there where many Maiar working for Morgoth, plus at least one elf lord as of this TV show.

 

[reelo]

There are two giant spiders; Shelob, in Mirkwood, and Ungoliant, at the gates of Mordor. Ungoliant was Shlob's mother, if I remember correctly.

No, Shelob is in the Cirith Ungol (Mordor) as her mother, Ungoliant has, so it is told, devoured herself to satiate her own hunger. The spiders in Mirkwood are offspring of Shelob.

 

[Ryujin]

No, Shelob is in the Cirith Ungol (Mordor) as her mother, Ungoliant has, so it is told, devoured herself to satiate her own hunger. The spiders in Mirkwood are offspring of Shelob.

Yup, you've got me there. Getting my Silmarillion and Lord of the Rings crossed up again.

 

[Maxperson]

Gil-galad was the leader of the elven forces they were allied with. They would not have withheld critical strategic information.

But there where many Maiar working for Morgoth, plus at least one elf lord as of this TV show.

They withheld critical information for millennia while the Noldor struggled against Morgoth and the others. They only came to clean up their mess Morgoth, not run errands to inform the elves of who died and who did not. Or do you think that they ran a list of dead Balrogs and other Maiar over to Gil-galad as well? If they did, Gil-galad should have known about the Balrog of Moria still being alive.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

They withheld critical information for millennia while the Noldor struggled against Morgoth and the others. They only came to clean up their mess Morgoth, not run errands to inform the elves of who died and who did not. Or do you think that they ran a list of dead Balrogs and other Maiar over to Gil-galad as well? If they did, Gil-galad should have known about the Balrog of Moria still being alive.

He probably does, given that it's probably the same balrog that featured in his Mithril origin story, and will probably make a personal experience at the end of the next episode.

 

[Mercurius]

Well there’s knowing where something is - and knowing how to get there. I know Italy abuts the south eastern region of France but without directional signage and a say nav I might need directions to get there.

I think there is a lot of quoting unreliable narrators in Tolkeinism… and a whole lot of speculation and assumption. We should be more comfortable with the idea of the uncertain - allowing space for development.

Except Tolkien didn't really employ unreliable narrators - especially Gandalf. And I don't see a world in which a gap in his books is filled out by a tv show ("space for development"). Anything the tv show adds is akin to Star Wars' Extended Universe...it isn't canonical to Tolkien's Legendarium (although certainly could be "canon" in an individual's version of Middle-earth).

 

[Hriston]

There are two giant spiders; Shelob, in Mirkwood, and Ungoliant, at the gates of Mordor. Ungoliant was Shlob's mother, if I remember correctly.

Not to pile on, but there are lots of (more than two) giant spiders described in Tolkien's legendarium. Ungoliant is the first. She is described as a primeval spirit of the Void who takes the form of an immense spider and allies with Morgoth, helping him destroy the Two Trees. Afterwards, she inhabits for a time a mountainous area called Ered Gorgoroth, where she spawns a race of giant spiders. I believe Shelob is one of these who escapes the destruction at the end of the War of Wrath and eventually ends up inhabiting the pass of Cirith Ungol into Mordor. It is said that her presence there is one of the reasons Sauron found Mordor attractive as a home base. Then there are the giant spiders encountered by Bilbo and Co. in Mirkwood.

 

[Mercurius]

The idea of the Valar "withholding critical information" from Gil-galad implies that they are allies within a shared conflict. That's not really how things worked. Even the war vs Morgoth wasn't really participated in by the Valar. A few Maiar joined the fray, or at least lived in Middle-earth (e.g. Melian), but it was a war between the Elves and their allies and Morgoth, and one that wasn't particularly approved of by the Valar, at least initially. The Valar only interceded at the very end.

This is even more true of the Second Age and later. The Valar helped combat Sauron through sending the Istari, but that's pretty much it. We can speculate on whether they would have intervened again if Sauron won the War of the Ring, but it is just speculation.

I think the reason the Valar didn't intervene is related to why Gandalf and Galadriel both refused the One Ring: core to Tolkien's philosophy is that evil and control over others and their fate are synonymous, or at least isomorphic. Elves and Humans are free people and intended to make their own way. Thus, the Valar kept out of things, for the most part. Thus G&G refused the ring, because they knew that even if they used it for good, the very act of using it--as power over others--was evil.

I mean, there's no reason that the Valar couldn't have jumped in at any time and found Sauron and brought him back to Valinor in chains. There's no way Sauron could have withstood their combined might. Even at his most powerful, he probably wasn't equal to Morgoth (except maybe when he had the One Ring); plus, Morgoth had dragons and Balrogs. But they didn't, because the Valar were servants of Iluvatar, and essentially told not to intervene in the fates of Iluvatar's children (Elves and Men).

The point being, the Valar did not directly engage in the conflicts of Middle-earth--and barely even indirectly, and only through intermediaries. They weren't "headquarters" for the good guys; they were largely above/beyond/outside the various conflicts.

 

[Maxperson]

The point being, the Valar did not directly engage in the conflicts of Middle-earth--and barely even indirectly, and only through intermediaries. They weren't "headquarters" for the good guys; they were largely above/beyond/outside the various conflicts.

Right, and the forces they did send during the War of Wrath wouldn't have stopped to give an enemy casualty report to Gil-galad and the others.