[+] The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - SPOILERS ALLOWED

Rune

Once A Fool
You can see this an attack on the latest thing that everyone loves, or instead try to hear my actual point.

Such terms have variable meanings. I'm using it to differentiate it from an attempt to adapt a work in a way that stays as true as possible to the source material, vs. a re-envisioning. It is a spectrum. So far this seems to veer more towards the latter than Peter Jackson's trilogy did.

But again, I'm going to reserve judgment until I actually see it.
I suspect Tolkien would view them both as disappointingly divergent, but at least the content of this series will presumably have to be approved by the Tolkien Estate, whereas Jackson’s films didn’t.

We got lucky that the Lord of the Rings movies were done with love and mostly explored the same themes as the books, even if they condensed the timeline (by decades!), re-envisioned characters, and often operated in a very different tone. The Hobbit…not so much.
 

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Ryujin

Legend
I suspect Tolkien would view them both as disappointingly divergent, but at least the content of this series will presumably have to be approved by the Tolkien Estate, whereas Jackson’s films didn’t.

We got lucky that the Lord of the Rings movies were done with love and mostly explored the same themes as the books, even if they condensed the timeline (by decades!), re-envisioned characters, and often operated in a very different tone. The Hobbit…not so much.
Given the way that Tolkien meticulously built his world and the characters therein, I strongly suspect that he would view any divergence from the source to be on the verge of heresy.
 

Mercurius

Legend
Yeah, elitist. Would you be slinging that fanfic criticism at Blade Runner? At Dune? Lawrence of Arabia? Schindler's List?
Of those, I've only read Dune, so don't have an opinion on the others. But as was expressed above, certainly all film adaptations can be seen as "fan fiction," except for maybe rare situations like Game of Thrones in which the author had a significant voice in the adaptation.

Elitist is an easy way to make me sound like the latest bad guy who is yucking our yum. I'm not doing that, nor am I saying that fan fiction is bad. It just seems like there's more "filling the gaps" in this, and that it diverges from Tolkien more than Peter Jackson's films did. But again, I'll reserve judgment until I see it.
Adapted from the materials they have the rights to adapt - the Hobbit, LotR and its appendices.
And yes, I've read those, plus the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, Lost Tales, etc. Not that it matters that I've done so to take issue with criticizing the adaptation of any of them for this project as "fanfic".
Yeah, I get it.

My point wasn't to check your Tolkien cred, but to point out that the works this is drawn from aren't singular like the LotR, so "adapted screenplay" seems inaccurate, or at least an understatement. I see it more as "inspired by" and/or "drawn from the works of."
 

Mercurius

Legend
I suspect Tolkien would view them both as disappointingly divergent, but at least the content of this series will presumably have to be approved by the Tolkien Estate, whereas Jackson’s films didn’t.

We got lucky that the Lord of the Rings movies were done with love and mostly explored the same themes as the books, even if they condensed the timeline (by decades!), re-envisioned characters, and often operated in a very different tone. The Hobbit…not so much.
I think that's why even many Tolkien diehards liked the LotR films: Jackson's love of Tolkien's stories was evident, and there was no attempt to "correct" or "update" them in any way. I think basing it visually off of John Howe and Alan Lee's artwork was key, as well. The most common complaints I've seen from Tolkienistas are more related to omissions: e.g. the Barrow-downs, Tom Bombadil, Radagast, etc. But it also makes sense why Jackson didn't include them.

If you're going to adapt a beloved and classic book series to the screen, I do think it is important to try to stay true to the actual themes and tone of the books as much as possible. Otherwise it runs the risk of getting into subversion. There's a time and place for that, but Tolkien? I think the best way to do that would be to do what Michael Moorcock did, when he subverted both Howard and Tolkien with his Elric character. Meaning, an entirely different story and world.

As far as specific "issues," I don't think it is "anti-Tolkien" to have non-white elves or hobbits. Casting is more diverse now than it was even 25 years ago, and films are explicitly made for a wider range of viewers than just "White people center, everyone else periphery." Obviously that's a good thing. And even though Tolkien created Middle-earth as a kind of mythological prehistoric Europe, there's no reason that elves and hobbits couldn't vary in skin color (not to mention, elves were originally from the east).

The one thing that seems to diverge from the spirit of Tolkien in a way that may end up feeling jarring, is the depiction of Galadriel as a young warrior. Without looking it up, I can't remember if she ever took up arms in the Silmarillion. Maybe? And no, this has nothing to do with Galadriel "belonging in a dress." It has more to do with who Galadriel was - including what her power was, which wasn't about physical combat, and her age and wisdom (she was already several thousand years old by the time of these stories). It seems somewhat diminishing of the character (On the other hand, while I really like Kate Blanchett, I found her depiction a bit stilted, like she was trying too hard to be "elfy" and just came across as a bit strange).

I suppose making Galadriel younger and less ethereal makes her more relatable, as what seems to be her role as primary protagonist. So again, from a film perspective, it makes sense, even if I think it might have been wiser to just create a new character.
 

ART!

Deluxe Unhuman
On a technical note, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences defines an adapted screenplay as a one "adapted from previously established material". A lot of the time adapted screenplays have a novel as their source material, but the established material could be anything from journalism covering a legal case to an ancient epic poem.
 


ART!

Deluxe Unhuman
Personally, I'm going to enjoy the freakout folks have when they react to the fact that nothing from the Silmarillion is going to be used.
We have every reason to believe there will be bits and pieces from The Silmarrilion that Amazon has negotiated the specific rights to use for this series.
 

Urriak

Explorer
I'm going to reserve judgement until I actually see it, but my general sense is that it looks less like an attempt to adapt Tolkien's Middle-earth to screen and more like fan-fiction. Meaning, sort of akin to the recent Star Wars movies. I do hope that they don't mangle certain aspects of Tolkien's creation like SW did, but on the other hand, unlike the SW movies, Tolkien's creation exists primarily (and only, really) in book form. Meaning, SW is a film franchise, so there's a sense that any film made is representative of the entire universe. With the Tolkien films and TV series, we can at least step back and say, "This is someone else's version of Tolkien's world, and thus more akin to fan fiction."

Or to put it another way, a bad SW film actually diminishes the franchise, whereas a bad Tolkien film or series can't touch the books. My only concern is that the vast majority of people know Tolkien only through the films, which is sort of like watching Troy but never reading The Iliad.

Others have pointed out why the criticisms of "fan fiction" is bad, but if it IS fan fiction, it's fan fiction that's costing a billion dollars... I think that makes it a little bit more notable than something someone made in their backyard.

On a more serious note, it's not fan fiction. Pretty sure the definition of ff is it can't be made for profit, and this show clearly is designed to get lots of signups for Prime (I dunno if it'll actually make it's money back, but still).

It's the same reason you can't call House of the Dragon fan fiction, when it is adapting material that also hasn't been entirely written out (with dialogue).
 

Urriak

Explorer
All that has been escipsed by the fact that Sauron looks like rapper Emmenim LMFAO.

I don't buy the idea this is about race or a female action hero, because Honor Among Thieves has ALL those things in abundance, and yet almost completely positive comments on YouTube to the trailer and it's getting plenty of likes, far more then dislikes, while Rings of Power is getting Ratio'd into the dirt.

The truth is obvious, D&D: HAT utterly respects the source material, it looks and feel like Faerun, and the characters fit in.

The Rings of Power doesn't respect the Middle Earth lore apparently.

It's that simple. Plus when HAT is funny, its on purpose and folks laugh with cast & crew, when people Rings of Power is funny, it's not on purpose, folks are laughing AT the show, not with it.

On the Sauron thing, I think it's already been said that Sauron is not actually the Eminem-lookin guy, that's someone else, probably a cultist. Some mistranslation or something, but the last character shown in the trailer is played by Bridie Sisson.


I want to point out that the stakes of Rings of Power vs. Honor Among Thieves are obviously completely different. And whenever someone says "The Rings of Power doesn't respect the lore," they usually cite the race stuff.

I listened to the Rings of Power SDCC panel, and the showrunners seem to know their lore pretty well, one of them knows how to speak Elvish for goodness sake. The critiques are using "lore" as a crutch when they are just upset about the race stuff.
 

On the Sauron thing, I think it's already been said that Sauron is not actually the Eminem-lookin guy, that's someone else, probably a cultist. Some mistranslation or something, but the last character shown in the trailer is played by Bridie Sisson.


I want to point out that the stakes of Rings of Power vs. Honor Among Thieves are obviously completely different. And whenever someone says "The Rings of Power doesn't respect the lore," they usually cite the race stuff.

I listened to the Rings of Power SDCC panel, and the showrunners seem to know their lore pretty well, one of them knows how to speak Elvish for goodness sake. The critiques are using "lore" as a crutch when they are just upset about the race stuff.

I personally lack the expertise. Still looking at all three of them, only the FR one interests me so far.
 

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