The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth is up (EDIT-All Chapters Now Added)

[JoeGKushner]

Wait -- you mean the D&D gaming world doesn't revolve around EN World?

No indeedy it doesn't.

But outside of WoTC site, it's probably the largest community of gamers for a specific game.

 

[skeetyrbug]

I hate to do this normally, but I agree with Joe, if wotc really wanted to put out a good product, they would be looking at "large" gatherings of their terget audience to read the scuttlebut.

However, by releasing Caverns the way they did, it just once again proves they dont really care about anyone who has played the game for more then , well, 5 years. Maybe.

And, Im amazed at the level of attack going on towards GVD. I read his posts, and I guess Ive missed something. The guy isnt super-impressed by the addy. Ok, no prob. Not everyone has to drink the Kool-Aid. I for one, have downloaded the addy (twice now, thanks wotc, do I have to download it 4 times???) to find the bits and pieces to add to my own campaign.

Alas, its almost more work to change it than to have redone the original myself....

It may be a naive opinion, but wotc doesnt have to use ALL their supplement books for their addys. Heroes of Horror didnt need to be in the addy to amke it good. If anything, a one page sheet at the end of the pdf describing where the "taint" rules may be placed would have done a lot for those of us that just wanted a good Greyhawk adventure. I dont need Raven-hawk adventures. I needed Greyhawk. And wotc should be the one place where I can get that from. they already screwed up the Ruins adventure, how much more bashing are they going to do???

 

[grodog]

I skimmed through the Lesser Caverns, and this change stuck out to me the most:

A river flows through the caverns, though it appears motionless. The river can be used to negotiate the caverns, but entry or exit by the river is impossible. The entry point of the river is a narrow rivulet, about 6 inches wide, that wends its way through the mountain, feeding the river with a small but steady stream of rain and glacial water. The river flows deeper into the mountain, but its course takes the water through miniscule cracks that allows only a trickle and no visible flow.

There's not threat of going over the falls here, which makes the magic boat a bit less useful (though it appears to lack the "go up/down a waterfall" capability of the original), and the hints in the Hermit's old journal scrap less useful (since it warns against the the falls and needing to rope the the bridge). Any insight as to why the river was changed so significantly, Ari?

I'll be curious to see how the Lost Caverns connect back to Iggwilv's Horn: I had assumed it would be via the river, which seems much less likely now.

 

[Maggan]

However, by releasing Caverns the way they did, it just once again proves they dont really care about anyone who has played the game for more then , well, 5 years. Maybe.

I'm curious about this. Exactly how is this release a proof that they don't care about their older customers?

And why would this release better serve customers who are more recent to D&D? In my view, it's potentially equally encumbersome/convenient for any age D&D player with internet access.

Unless you're making the case that older players have worse bandwidth or worse printers or something.

So if you care to elucidate me a bit, it'd be appreciated.

/M

 

[Mouseferatu]

Any insight as to why the river was changed so significantly, Ari?

None at all. In fact, while I may be misremembering--it's been a while since we wrote this--I thought that C.A. and I had used the river as one possible connecting point between the two dungeons.

At this point, until all four parts are out, your guess is as good as mine, I'm afraid.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I hate to do this normally, but I agree with Joe, if wotc really wanted to put out a good product, they would be looking at "large" gatherings of their terget audience to read the scuttlebut.

Fourth Edition.... making the enemy of my enemy my friend.

 

[skeetyrbug]

now thats a tagline I could get behind...

and that was totally tongue in cheek, BTW. I like Joe's posts...

 

[skeetyrbug]

Maggan-

I guess my issue is instead of a fiathful re-release of classic adventures, we get addys that are so heavily loaded with "optional" books, its just another "lets see if we can sell the books we put out a second time" ploy, IMO. If I wanted to use horro rules in Greyhawk, Im fully capable of adding that stuff myself.

It seems wotc has taken a "DM handholding" approach to their books that have been put out for 3.x and up. Yes, I know there was some of that in all editions, but it just really seems to me if you have picked up the game in the last 5 years or so, you dont have to have any DM skills. Back when I started, it wa as a player; you didnt get to DM until you knew how the game workrd with your group. Now, anyone who picks up a book can run a game. Not that they should...

its all just my opinion of course, and I may be a DM elitist, but i dont care for the format of someone telling me how to run my game. just give me the base adventure. if you want to add suggestions, id would honestly like that better, but dont ell me how I have to run my game with the optional books. its just not appropriate.

 

[Maggan]

Now, anyone who picks up a book can run a game.

That's what we had to do, all those twenty odd years ago. Pick up a book and run. We didn't have the luxury of being players first, we just had to dive straight into DMing.

It sure hooked me. Trial and error were the theme of them days. Mostly error, of course.

/M

 

[skeetyrbug]

That's what we had to do, all those twenty odd years ago. Pick up a book and run. We didn't have the luxury of being players first, we just had to dive straight into DMing.

It sure hooked me. Trial and error were the theme of them days. Mostly error, of course.

/M

IMO, the part of the line you omiited is the more telling of the staement. yes, we did have to jump in, at some point. I guess I was lucky to have older players with more experience to DM us to start. We did not, ever have someone from TSR telling us the way to game, however. One of the big tag lines back in the day was run your game the way you want, dont be a slve to the rules, yadda yadda yadda. Took that to heart, played and learned, and became a DM who could run a campaign on my own.

So, I do see your point, and its quite valid. Im just irritated by the nwere crowd that cant seem to make their own decisions about rules, and have to have everythign spelled out for them, or have a specific rule for evey situation. Reeks of not thinking for yourself, to me.

I ahve also been spoiled by having intelligent players for years. we all just get together for a good night of fun. there is no "I have to WIN" mentallity. If there are rules issues, we stop for a 5 minute smoke break, get a drink or somehting, hash it out, and on our way we go. No game stoppers about rules. we have fun. We're not trying to beat anyone.

And Im not syaing anyone here is wrong in how they play, unless you need to have wotc support on the phone with you when you DM, then, yeah, you're gaming wrong...