LostSoul
Adventurer
Why do you see plot advancement and character development as two different things?
The Luke Skywalker Paradox
- Thread starter Ktulu
- Start date
Why do you see plot advancement and character development as two different things?
Going back to the original post, I've experienced exactly this problem reffing the Mongoose super campaign War against the Drow.
In the first book, a major part of the campaign involves a race against time, warning the powers that be about the impending invasions. When the invasions does take place, there are mechanics to take in to consideration the actions of the party up to that time, and how long it took them to warn people. I made this clear to my players at the start of the campaign, as an 'against the clock' element is unusual in my experience, with many campaigns having triggered events so that the PCs can't miss them.
The up shot of this was that the players avoided any mini adventures which did not directly advance their aim to getting to the regional capital, warning them and then helping coordinate the defences of the region. The up shot of this was they failed to get the XP the adventure anticipated and were a much lower level than they should have been. I think this is the lack of character development the OP was talking about.
It's really tricky. When the PCs are masters of their own direction and have been given strong sign posts by the DM that they need to get a move on, any sensible party is going to motor onwards. As others have suggested, you need to throw in a curve ball. Or maybe you could change the sign posting you are giving the PCs.
Maybe you could introduce a crack team of NPC operatives. Have them fight along side the players for a session and completely out-shine them, then send them in to the heart of the enemy only to be totally crushed. That should tell the players they need to do some levelling up before engaging the enemy.
Alternatively, have the war take a strange twist. 'A Darkness at Sethanon' is the third of the Riftwar books by Raymond E Feist and it features an interesting development in the war. The evil army suddenly starts campaigning towards an out of the way city with no visible strategic significance. Why are they doing this? What do they know the PCs don't? This sort of plot twist could cause them to have to undertake some kind of investigation, maybe seek out information sources (the Oracle!) and only then understand what is happening and how to stop it.
It's a difficult situation you find yourself in. If you want to change the behaviour of the players you need to understand what is driving that behaviour then change that with an IC approach.
And never worry, there is always the next campaign...
Cheers
Dan
Last edited:
D'karr
Adventurer
Re-elected???
webrunner
First Post
Introduce a party of Yuan Ti- call them elites or anything, make them kind of "evil adventurers" - have one a soldier, one a leader, one an artillery and one a brute.. have them meet the party, and fight, during this war- then if they're losing, have them talk amongst themselves and escape leaving an indicator of why they're leaving. IF they're winning , get them the information in some other way: that there's some artifact that can turn the tide of the war, and that this Anti Party is looking for it.
Now you're away from the front lines of the war, other hooks that come up during the dungeons leading to this artifact will be easier for them to end up adventuring on.
Now you're away from the front lines of the war, other hooks that come up during the dungeons leading to this artifact will be easier for them to end up adventuring on.
I don't know if anyone mentioned this but, why not have the characters put their plans to end the war into action, and fail because they weren't ready to deal with the challenges ahead of them? There really isn't a greater character builder than failing an objective. This will give you more fuel to have them figure out how to recover from their failure, what other elements they need to tackle, before they give it a second go?
You can always give them some partial success perhaps in the form of taking down a major enemy, so they don't feel like total failures. But if you look at most epic stories (or most action movie/series formula), there is failure somewhere in the history of a character. I'm sure you can throw enough set backs in their way to delay them another 5-7 levels before they attempt to end the war again.
You can always give them some partial success perhaps in the form of taking down a major enemy, so they don't feel like total failures. But if you look at most epic stories (or most action movie/series formula), there is failure somewhere in the history of a character. I'm sure you can throw enough set backs in their way to delay them another 5-7 levels before they attempt to end the war again.
sarcasm?
But, the shark killed more people and created bloody havoc, and the town had to hire some shark hunters while tourism dried up to nothing because of the shark attacks.
The answer that first popped into my head was Lord of the Rings. In Two Towers, there is an amazing war as the forces of Isengard attack Helm's Deep. The battle goes poorly for the heroes but somehow in the end (with a bit of Deus Ex Machina imo) they emerge victorious. But even though this battle is over, Sauron is still amassing forces in Mordor who then march on Minas Tirith.
Having your PCs fight and win a glorious battle only to be told that there is another army that's either amassing somewhere in distant lands or is already steamrolling human settlements in another part of the world would keep the campaign going.
It's a bit of chain-yanking and railroad-y, but if your PCs aren't bored of the campaign yet and still want to play, they might welcome the inclusion of another force into the fray - one that requires them to chase a MacGuffin for a while, and even then they have to seek help from the Dwarven Armies because the Yuan-Ti are still just overwhelming.
Having your PCs fight and win a glorious battle only to be told that there is another army that's either amassing somewhere in distant lands or is already steamrolling human settlements in another part of the world would keep the campaign going.
It's a bit of chain-yanking and railroad-y, but if your PCs aren't bored of the campaign yet and still want to play, they might welcome the inclusion of another force into the fray - one that requires them to chase a MacGuffin for a while, and even then they have to seek help from the Dwarven Armies because the Yuan-Ti are still just overwhelming.
