This sounds all pretty, but it misses the entire point...
There is nothing that a pure martial party can accomplish beyond "survive this big chunk of damage" that a caster team or a team with a single caster CANNOT accomplish. But there is so so so much that a pure martial team cannot accomplish. This isn't about everyone being able to do the same things, this is about what can a martial character do to affect the plot that a spellcaster CANNOT accomplish. Hard limit cannot.
And there is currently.... nothing.
Thank you for the clarification.
I guess I would argue that having the things I mentioned are things specifically are not available to the magic using classes you mentioned. I picked those for that reason. This is the part of the conversation where things become difficult for me because I have to remember what is custom rules vs stock. I guess my main answer to the criticism is mundane classes excel at solving problems without magic.
For example, the absolute best stealth a person can have is a wholly unmagical high level rogue. Magic has auras that can be detected, but rogues can become masters of stealth and misdirection. Evading guardians with active perceptive magic running are their main forte. It's not just stealth, but also learning how to subtly redirect attention away from where you are to where you are not. But that's custom.
I haven't defined anything that magic can not do, because by definition it can do anything. Given that magic is discrete bits in D&D, I do enforce the opportunity costs that come about when spells are chosen. Just because it can be done by magic doesn't mean that your character can.
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To get back to the OP, I remember Minigiant asking once "what does a high level fighter look like"? Different thread, I think. Stormonu's post (#210) was a reasonable start. When I think about it, with my rules, a 12th level fighter would be able to take out up to 15 1-HD targets a round with a donkey's jawbone. They might be able to subdue a mid-sized dragon (up to 12-15 HD) on their own. They could command a troop of 120 soliders who were utterly loyal.
I also have a delineation between mundane, uncanny, preternatural, and supernatural / magical. In part this is because I want fighters and rogues to be completely non-magical but still be able to accomplish fantastic things. There are also a number of people in the real world who have accomplished amazing things because they were highly trained in just the right situation, phenomenally lucky, or both and survived.
I agree that after a while extra bonuses become superfluous and it is expanded capability that matters. A high level fighter or rogue just shouldn't need to roll on certain tasks unless there is a change of assumptions. A 12th level rogue just doesn't need to roll to open a padlock.
Now, this is me. As to what "should" be, what WotC "should" publish, I don't care that much. I know what aesthetic I and my players like, and I work to fulfil that. I have the time, &c. to write what rules are necessary, and if they suck I change them. Eventually everyone's happy.
