D&D General The Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons: 1970-1977 Coming In June

[mamba]

It was, but that's changing. Physical books sales always decline as you get longer and longer into a new edition. Hence, they're moving to a purely digital format.

right as they are releasing a new edition, which according to you is the worst time…

I also see no reason why this decline in sales would be true for print but not digital.

DNDBeyond and VTT based modules is the future for D&D. Charging subscription fees to dndbeyond/vtt users and/or charging for modules, digital miniatures, dice and so on. This is the only way they will ever get D&D sales up to the targets Hasbro is expecting.

this I can buy, sure, that is the long term goal

Their current CEO did it at Microsoft, and now they're doing it at Hasbro too. It's well known that the only books that sell really well for RPG's are the core rulebooks, which is why they are still putting the 2024 books out in physical format and calling it a "final edition".

no one is calling it a final edition…

Once the VTT is release ready, that's when you'll see the flip to purely digital content. The VTT is planned for 2026, so there might be a few more physical books later next year while they wait for a stable release.

The VTT is planned for 2026? According to whom? Pretty sure they want it out this year, certainly before 26.

Nice conspiracy theory you got going there, the only part that is true is that they want people to buy digital products and subscribe, hardly a surprise there

 

[Superchunk77]

right as they are releasing a new edition, which according to you is the worst time…

Incorrect. They are releasing the core rulebooks in physical, which will sell. Everything after those will see decreasing sales. It happened with 5e and every edition prior to that.

I also see no reason why this decline in sales would be true for print but not digital.

Subscription (potentially multiple tiers) is why. Corporations don't want spikes of revenue only when new products are launched. They want continuous streams of revenue. There is also way less overhead and logistics with digital only.

no one is calling it a final edition…

WotC called it "evergreen" I believe. Same thing.

The VTT is planned for 2026? According to whom? Pretty sure they want it out this year, certainly before 26.

I heard 2026, but that may have been for the first full on VTT only adventure. 2024 might be just the barebones VTT release with minimal assets.

 

[mamba]

Incorrect. They are releasing the core rulebooks in physical, which will sell. Everything after those will see decreasing sales. It happened with 5e and every edition prior to that.

according to you the adventures after the core are selling better than a long time after the core books were released, that was my point. So they switch to digital right after releasing new cores, when adventure sales supposedly are at their highest…

Also, sales were not ‘steadily decreasing’ for 5e, they basically kept rising for 8 years or so and then stayed there

Subscription (potentially multiple tiers) is why. Corporations don't want spikes of revenue only when new products are launched. They want continuous streams of revenue. There is also way less overhead and logistics with digital only.

sure, not a reason to kill books in 2025 though

WotC called it "evergreen" I believe. Same thing.

it will not be final, there will be another revision eventually, so not the same thing. We are getting a revision of the ‘evergreen’ edition right now

 

[Willie the Duck]

Re: WotC getting rid of books -- we can tapdance around this for 3 pages or 30. All I have to say is 'bring your receipts.' If you have verifiable and corroborable evidence that WotC is going to shift to an exclusively no-print-version business model, feel free to bring such evidence forward. Otherwise, it's just the same old bloviating and conjecture, and us splitting the hairs over whether 'evergreen' and 'final' are contextually identical isn't actually going to change whose predictions are right.

Yup, history book along with a complete reprint. Not clear if it is just the original box set recreatee, bit the sheer size and the tineframe suggests thia could reprint all of OD&D.

I'm guessing the full supplement list and maybe pertinent Strategic Review and Dragon articles (man it would be a trip if they could also license the related Alarums and Excursions material as well).

Re: Holmes: I get Zenopus's desire. I have no idea why they have been so reticent to re-release Holmes Basic (some bizarre rights issue we don't know about?).

What I would really love is if it also included a re-edited version of oD&D so some of my non-superfan*gamer friends would consider playing it. I remember someone making an (unofficial, and thus pirateware) 'oD&D Consolidated' pdf that was trying to put oD&D together into a single-book format using mostly EGG's own works, just re-edited for clarity and single-text-cohesion. An official version of that from TSR would be really nice.
*The kind who have a back to the 80s (or even 70s) history with D&D, but probably couldn't rattle off Gygax or Arneson's names off the top of their head

Just trying to keep it authentic to my experience. Mountain Dew, Little Caesars, and D&D. That was a weekend right there.

Don't forget renting a few VHSs or NES games from blockbuster (unless your group was the kind to D&D and just D&D all-weekend-long).

 

[Clint_L]

It was, but that's changing. Physical books sales always decline as you get longer and longer into a new edition. Hence, they're moving to a purely digital format. DNDBeyond and VTT based modules is the future for D&D. Charging subscription fees to dndbeyond/vtt users and/or charging for modules, digital miniatures, dice and so on. This is the only way they will ever get D&D sales up to the targets Hasbro is expecting. Their current CEO did it at Microsoft, and now they're doing it at Hasbro too. It's well known that the only books that sell really well for RPG's are the core rulebooks, which is why they are still putting the 2024 books out in physical format and calling it a "final edition". Once the VTT is release ready, that's when you'll see the flip to purely digital content. The VTT is planned for 2026, so there might be a few more physical books later next year while they wait for a stable release.

You have a habit of writing your unfounded speculation as facts. Got any evidence to support your claims?

 

[Mannahnin]

You have a habit of writing your unfounded speculation as facts. Got any evidence to support your claims?

It sounds to me like he's making predictions.

You could just also phrase that as "what specific statements from WotC can you cite in support of these predictions?"

 

[Superchunk77]

It sounds to me like he's making predictions.

You could just also phrase that as "what specific statements from WotC can you cite in support of these predictions?"

That's correct. These are predictions backed up by warning signs from last year and early this year. There is no public statement (yet) stating that WotC are doing a full stop on physical products, but the clues/red flags are written on the wall.

Ending the Penguin distribution contract.
Hiring a lot of software developers.
The CEO from Microsoft.
Laying off members of the physical book team at WotC (not to mention the Hasbro layoffs in other physical production lines).
Still refusing to publish PDF's and instead relying on DND Beyond, and still gladly charging people twice for the same book.
The Unreal VTT and DND Beyond Maps software announcements.
The deal with Foundry VTT.
The failure of the OGL 1.1.
The many many issues they've had to deal with in their physical products (the hadozee incident, the recent "sensitivity" edits to the core 5e books, the deck of many things defects, older books falling apart)

 

[mamba]

There is no public statement (yet) stating that WotC are doing a full stop on physical products, but the clues/red flags are written on the wall.

so a whole lot of nothing then… I am sure they will phase out books eventually and go all digital, I am not expecting that to happen in 2025 or 26 however.

It will be a gradual decline in book sales that get us there, not WotC killing off half their current sales

 

[Matchstick]

Here's a video about it:

 

[Superchunk77]

so a whole lot of nothing then… I am sure they will phase out books eventually and go all digital, I am not expecting that to happen in 2025 or 26 however.

It will be a gradual decline in book sales that get us there, not WotC killing off half their current sales

Hardly nothing. But you're free to draw your own conclusions from it.