"The Marvels" - Teaser

[Ruin Explorer]

It's just done for the sake of the story.

Correct, and that's why it doesn't work.

Because it doesn't have any moral resonance, and it's not relatable, human, or real, and they've written themselves into a corner where they're trying to justify super-genocides. You might find super-genocide exciting and fun as a plotline, but most audiences are going to be somewhat horrified by that. Kang makes Pol Pot look like a shoplifter. Hell, he makes Thanos look like a shoplifter!

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

and it's not relatable, human, or real, and they've written themselves into a corner where they're trying to justify super-genocides. You might find super-genocide exciting and fun as a plotline, but most audiences are going to be somewhat horrified by that. Kang makes Pol Pot look like a shoplifter.

We are talking about the Marvel movies, right? Characters which are not all humans, and some have super powers, such as time travel, warping reality, super strength, who knows what powers they are giving Adam Warlock in the Guardians movie. It's fantastical fiction. I'm just looking to be entertained, as I think most people watching this movie genre are. I'm not looking for The Marvels, by Dostoevsky.
If that doesn't work for you, okay. I'm not here to tell you that you have to enjoy anything or call out your morals. It's jus a movie I can go watch and take my mind off of life for a while. I hope you enjoy The Marvels. If you don't, hopefully the theater has a money back policy that lets you get your money back if not the time you spent watching it.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

We are talking about the Marvel movies, right? Characters which are not all humans, and some have super powers, such as time travel, warping reality, super strength, who knows what powers they are giving Adam Warlock in the Guardians movie. It's fantastical fiction. I'm just looking to be entertained, as I think most people watching this movie genre are. I'm not looking for The Marvels, by Dostoevsky.
If that doesn't work for you, okay. I'm not here to tell you that you have to enjoy anything or call out your morals. It's jus a movie I can go watch and take my mind off of life for a while. I hope you enjoy The Marvels. If you don't, hopefully the theater has a money back policy that lets you get your money back if not the time you spent watching it.

I don't think The Marvels will be built around assisting in super-genocide, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. But the movie you're suggesting, would be.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Okay.

 

[Stalker0]

I don't think we should take the scene there to depict the literal and total experience she had. It should be taken as representational.

Completely agree. I took it as a pseudo mind meld. I mean she could have not just seen the thoughts, but FELT his glee at the destruction, or something like that.

I think its because the concept is utterly foreign to us. But if there was a way to REALLY get into someone's head, see their true thoughts and feel their true emotions, without adjustment to make themselves look favorable, but utterly raw.... I mean there is no hiding or talking your way out of it past that. The person knows you possibly as well as you know yourself (at least in certain ways).

Bluffing your way past that point may just not be possible.

 

[Umbran]

I'm going to go with the writers.

I think you miss the point. Kang is making that choice within the fiction. So, within the fiction he ought to have a moral justification for it.

It's just done for the sake of the story.

Yes, but within that story the characters aren't going to say, "Well, this is just a choice that the writers make - it is all just fiction, so it doesn't matter." The characters aren't going to give him a pass on it because it is a fiction.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

I think you miss the point. Kang is making that choice within the fiction. So, within the fiction he ought to have a moral justification for it.

He may think it's a better and moral choice to wipe out all the other realities to save the main reality. His morals are subjective, and he may see it as the correct choice. Kang comes from the future of the main reality, sacred timeline or whatever they called it. I assume he may view his reality as more worthy than the branched realities. He may look at it as having to prune those branches so the main timeline can survive. Is it moral to kill many to save a few? It's basically a choice between kill off all those realities or everyone dies. From his point of view, at least how i'm interpreting it, those realities are destined to die anyway. Either he kills them off, or they die off when the entirety of the multiverse dies off. They are dead either way. Is it wrong to kill of those that are going to die off any way?

Yes, but within that story the characters aren't going to say, "Well, this is just a choice that the writers make - it is all just fiction, so it doesn't matter." The characters aren't going to give him a pass on it because it is a fiction.

I'm sure that within the story everyone thinks their own reality is the main reality or at least would think so. But in any case, I took the question as more of a meta-question, not really viewing it from the point of view of characters within the story. Who chose the reality Kang comes from as the main reality? I don't know how that would be answered within the story. I mean, I guess you can go with the One Above All if he exists in the MCU. I guess we can also just look at all the depictions of the multiverse that have been shown in the Marvel movies. They all appear to show one main timeline and different branches spreading in out from the main timeline. Some of these branches show their own branches spreading out. Maybe in the distant past the current main timeline spread out from a different timeline, which was the original main timeline. Or maybe even that was a branch of a branch of some timeline. Who knows. Does it really matter? At some point you have to stop focusing on some of these details and just go along with it. It's just entertainment.

 

[Ryujin]

Every timeline looks like the main one, if you're on that branch. How the 'original' was determined is never stated, from what I can recall. It's just taken as fact.

 

[Umbran]

He may think it's a better and moral choice to wipe out all the other realities to save the main reality.His morals are subjective, and he may see it as the correct choice. Kang comes from the future of the main reality, sacred timeline or whatever they called it.

I believe you are incorrect.

The story we are given in the Loki series is that there is no clear "main" reality. Kang mucked about, and discovered a bunch of different versions of himself in various realities - but then some of them tried to take over other realities, and they went to war with each other.

Eventually one of them killed off the rest - and that's He Who Remains. The Sacred Timeline he sets up has no greater claim to worthiness than that it is created by the survivor of that conflict - history was literally written by the winner! And, the implication I got is that it isn't his original timeline - it is an edited thing built so the TVA can maintain it and keep other Kangs from showing up...

But remember, the only threat that comes out of allowing multiple realities is still just Kang! It isn't like he's protecting reality from anything other than himself. It is basically a protection racket.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

I believe you are incorrect.

How dare you question a squirrel's assumptions?!?!

The story we are given in the Loki series is that there is no clear "main" reality. Kang mucked about, and discovered a bunch of different versions of himself in various realities - but then some of them tried to take over other realities, and they went to war with each other.

To be honest, I don't remember the whole plot of the Loki show. It's been a while since I saw it. That being said, was it stated there was no clear main reality? I could have sworn the images they showed with the sacred timeline appeared as one timeline with other timelines branching off from the main timeline, like this.

Eventually one of them killed off the rest - and that's He Who Remains. The Sacred Timeline he sets up has no greater claim to worthiness than that it is created by the survivor of that conflict - history was literally written by the winner! And, the implication I got is that it isn't his original timeline - it is an edited thing built so the TVA can maintain it and keep other Kangs from showing up...

I'm not sure where the claim to the sacred timeline or any other being worthy comes from. I don't think i've ever made that claim. If my posts has somehow made it appear that I believe the main timeline has a claim to greater worthiness, it was not on purpose.

What I have attempted to communicate is that the other timelines, being offshoots of the "sacred" timeline, are destine to be destroyed along with the sacred timeline

But remember, the only threat that comes out of allowing multiple realities is still just Kang! It isn't like he's protecting reality from anything other than himself. It is basically a protection racket.

The end of Doctor Strange 2 Charlize Theron presents the convergence events, which if they are anything like the convergence events in Jonathan Hickman's (2015), have realities crashing into each other and causing the destruction of the realities that crash into each other. The comics has the Beyonders causing the destruction of the multiverse. The MCU has yet to reveal the cause of the convergence events, or maybe they did, and I just don't remember.

In any case, in the comics the convergence events are stopped by destroying that realities earth. Earth seems to be the Florida of the universe and the cause of everyone's problems. I'm going to assume that the MCU most likely won't use the Beyonders as the main villains, and destroying each reality's earth as the way to stop the convergence. I'm thinking they are probably using the destruction of that universe as the way to stop the convergence events.

So basically, Kang is a threat to the multiverse and so are the convergence events. But that's if they have some level of similarity with the comics.