The Mechanical Impact of -5/+10

[TwoSix]

The auto-hit is part of scoring a critical though?

No, actually, they're related but not identical. Rolling a 20 is an auto-hit and is also a critical, but you can roll a critical without it being an auto-hit when you have an expanded critical range. Likewise, you can have an attack that auto hits but is not a critical hit (like magic missile).

The difference between the average damage of a -X/+2X attack and a normal attack does not change when you factor in criticals.
You can run the math and find out.

 

[FrogReaver]

You're trolling right?
Crits are an auto-hit. Of course that affects the difference in absolute damage because absolute damage is affected by accuracy.

You have no idea how many times I think you are trolling. I think you are trolling right now but I don't say it. It only serves as a way to end the conversation. I guess that's what you really want though. So conversation ended.

 

[Yunru]

No, actually, they're related but not identical. Rolling a 20 is an auto-hit and is also a critical, but you can roll a critical without it being an auto-hit when you have an expanded critical range. Likewise, you can have an attack that auto hits but is not a critical hit (like magic missile).

The difference between the average damage of a -X/+2X attack and a normal attack does not change when you factor in criticals.
You can run the math and find out.

Hmmm... I disagree, because Expanded Critical also expands you're critical hit from what I remember, but if that's the terminology you wish to use, then yes, criticals don't affect the difference but auto-hits do. Which is what I first said?
Now I'm confused.

You have no idea how many times I think you are trolling. I think you are trolling right now but I don't say it. It only serves as a way to end the conversation. I guess that's what you really want though. So conversation ended.

Sure, go ahead. But if you really want to ignore the table I posted showing why it matters and instead make personal attacks, aren't you just confirming your troll?

 

[TwoSix]

Hmmm... I disagree, because Expanded Critical also expands you're critical hit from what I remember, but if that's the terminology you wish to use, then yes, criticals don't affect the difference but auto-hits do. Which is what I first said?
Now I'm confused.

Me too. I feel like I'm wrestling some amorphous ooze with this argument.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

FYI, for anyone who wants to do the math, even with the expanded critical range, the effect is so minor it is--for the most part-inconsequential.

But hey, if anyone wants to continue the battle between two Grandmasters of Flowers.... FIGHT!

 

[Yunru]

FYI, for anyone who wants to do the math, even with the expanded critical range, the effect is so minor it is--for the most part-inconsequential.

But hey, if anyone wants to continue the battle between two Grandmasters of Flowers.... FIGHT!

If anyone wants to do that, more power to them. Having to seperate out damage dice and static damage? No thanks!

 

[Yunru]

Me too. I feel like I'm wrestling some amorphous ooze with this argument.

Right, so I'm less confused:
Scoring an auto-hit effects the accuracy, and thus the damage difference, agreed?

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Right, so I'm less confused:
Scoring an auto-hit effects the accuracy, and thus the damage difference, agreed?

How could it affect it? The only auto-hit is a 20. Unless I am confused? LOL

 

[Yunru]

How could it affect it? The only auto-hit is a 20. Unless I am confused? LOL

Because the -5 penalty changes when you only hit on a 20 vs not. So if normally you'd hit on a 17, you've a 20% chance of hitting, but with -5, you've a 5% chance of hitting (instead of a 0%) because of the auto-hit.

Or to put it another way, -5 shrinks the set by 5 numbers (so [14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20] becomes [19, 20]), but the set will always have 20 in it (so [17, 18, 19, 20] just becomes [20]). So a -5 when you only hit on a 16 actually only has a -4 effect (-3 when you only hit on a 17, etc.).

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Because the -5 penalty changes when you only hit on a 20 vs not. So if normally you'd hit on a 17, you've a 20% chance of hitting, but with -5, you've a 5% chance of hitting (instead of a 0%) because of the auto-hit.

I think the confusion is in the terminology then. An auto-hit is only a 20, whether you take the -5 or not, a 20 is still a 20. But I understand your point regardless and I don't think anyone is questioning that part of it.