D&D 5E The Minimum* to Keep 5E at a Low Power Level?

[pukunui]

I would like to run CoS again some day.

A few things I’ve been thinking of:

PCs can only be human (or maybe halflings). If the players refuse, then races with darkvision find that it doesn’t work in Barovia. Being able to see in the dark just isn’t conducive with the horror theme.

No long rests in the wilderness. If the PCs camp out in the forest or wherever, it’s just too creepy/unsettling to get any rest. Wolves howling in the distance, glowing eyes watching from the bushes, bats fluttering in your hair, and so on. (This would mean banning Leomund’s tiny hut, a spell that I hate anyway.)

Make Strahd a mythic creature.


Also, something I did when I ran it last time was “cheat” with the Tarokka reading. Having it be truly random can be fun but it can also lead to awkward and/or anticlimactic placement of items/allies. Instead, I predetermined the outcome and then had those cards on top when I did the reading. My players were none the wiser.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

If its going to be CoS, you really, really need to lean on Van Rick's Ravenloft book!

You have a setting that gives you an in-world reason to torture your PCs, lean hard on it.

Have them choose a Fear and a dark secret, and use that against them. Use Shadows to drain their stats, Lycanthropy to ruin their life, Possession to turn them against each other. Bagman and devouring bags for your obsessive looters. Slithering trackers, Revenant and Relentless Slasher to track the murder-hobos.

Nothing stay dead, nothing stay secret. Ravenloft is not a setting with consequences, the setting IS a consequence.

 

[iserith]

A disagreement my wife (who's also a player in the campaign) and I have had regarding the next campaign...

All the players voted on Curse of Strahd as the next adventure. I think it will be challenging to run it as a horror game for this group.
1) They joke around. A lot.
2) They are murder hobos.
3) There's a lot of them, and it's difficult to challenge them.
4) Easy encounters don't contribute to the dangerous atmosphere.

The types of encounters that should work in 5e - eight encounters per day - don't work so well in most horror games. Of course, you can have waves of zombies in that kind of game, but you can't really do a war of attrition with a single challenging encounter - which is what Ravenloft is supposed to be. The werewolf that's stalking the town. The ghost haunting the ruined abbey.

It's not often that I start a campaign knowing from the beginning it's a terrible fit and it's going to fail. But I know this going into it.
But I was out-voted. So I guess that's that.

D&D is inherently silly, right to its core, so I submit that CoS is actually better in my view when it's not made serious or horrible. If you give it the Evil Dead treatment, it's actually excellent, and that will play right into the players making jokes and being typical adventurers.

Change that radiant sword into a chainsaw hand and they will love it, I guarantee you. Work with them, not against them.

 

[Oofta]

If you can't run CoS as intended, you can still run a monster of the week campaign. Who cares if the PCs change it from Gothic horror into Monster Hunter? Adjusting expectations for what will work for the group is part of being a DM.

Lean into things like werewolves, flesh golem, horrid experiments gone wrong and don't worry if they just laugh off the dark themes.

 

[robus]

The group will not entertain the idea of any systems besides 5E.

Then insist on an all human party to keep things thematic?

 

[DarkCrisis]

A disagreement my wife (who's also a player in the campaign) and I have had regarding the next campaign...

All the players voted on Curse of Strahd as the next adventure. I think it will be challenging to run it as a horror game for this group.
1) They joke around. A lot.
2) They are murder hobos.
3) There's a lot of them, and it's difficult to challenge them.
4) Easy encounters don't contribute to the dangerous atmosphere.

The types of encounters that should work in 5e - eight encounters per day - don't work so well in most horror games. Of course, you can have waves of zombies in that kind of game, but you can't really do a war of attrition with a single challenging encounter - which is what Ravenloft is supposed to be. The werewolf that's stalking the town. The ghost haunting the ruined abbey.

It's not often that I start a campaign knowing from the beginning it's a terrible fit and it's going to fail. But I know this going into it.
But I was out-voted. So I guess that's that.

Use original Ravenloft level draining undead. See if they keep laughing.

 

[Bacon Bits]

That's true. However, without the group's buy-in to the adventure, nothing the DM wants to run will be successful. And honestly, I'm so thoroughly defeated by my last experience running that I don't know what would excite me to DM.

And that's really what 5E D&D has been like for me for the past 7-ish years. Players who want me to do everything, and they bring nothing but a character sheet and dice. Meanwhile, the system gives me little assistance in encounter building, guidelines for treasure distribution, and the adventure modules aren't peak either. I've seen every permutation of character build - oh, you have another elf rogue with leather armor and a rapier - that is going to be "sneak attack, bonus action - disengage" for every action?

Oh look, it's another dwarven Life domain cleric! Another elf ranger with a longbow!

I'm just so, so sick of it.

Yeah, the endless repetition of the same character optimizations get tiresome. System mastery is not particularly entertaining the sixth time around.

Honestly, I think it's time for a discussion with your play group. Tell them you're burning out on 5e D&D. Tell them that while you could continue to run the game, you're not really excited to do so. Ideally, at the same time you should have a pitch ready for a new campaign under a different system, but realistically you might want to offer the reins to someone else for awhile.

I genuinely don't understand how your entire group can just stonewall you on doing literally anything different. "I'm not enjoying this, but I'd really like to try this other game." "No." "Well, can we at least change these things that are making my life so miserable?" "No." I mean, what? If someone's response to, "I'm not having fun," is, "Yeah whatever," then, like, I'm not sure why I want to play with these people at all. That level of disrespect is just unreasonable.

I would just say, "I've run several 5e D&D campaigns without enjoying it. I've expressed disinterest and a desire to change things, but I relented when you insisted we play 5e D&D the way we have been. However, I'm burned out. I'm not having fun. I hate it. I don't want to run Curse of Strahd because I don't think it will work, so I'm not going to. Someone else is welcome to take the helm if they wish to run Curse of Strahd or 5e D&D and I'll join as a player. If not, I'm willing to run <campaign pitch for the system I'm excited about>. Anybody who is interested in that is welcome. You're all invited to that campaign if you want, but I'm not running 5e D&D for the foreseeable future. I have played 5e D&D with you guys for quite awhile without it being what I wanted to play. I think it's fair that I get to play what I want, too."

If they don't want to play your system and they don't want to DM themselves, then just don't play D&D. Find another group, or play Gloomhaven or Twilight Imperium or Blood Bowl or some other board game.

If you still run 5e D&D -- and I strongly encourage you not to because you're already harboring resentment -- then there's not a lot you can really do. Your table has denied you the options you want. The problems with the game are pretty challenging to overcome if you handcuff yourself into not changing character options. Multiclassing, feats, and numerous unbalanced spells are very difficult just to work around if your players insist on power gaming.

The only options I can really offer:

1. Try the monsters from Kobold Press's books, or the MCDM Kickstarter for Flee Mortals! They're all more interesting than WotC's fare, and they tend to scale better at higher levels.
2. You list OP magic items as a complaint. I don't understand how your players are getting them. In our games, it's rare for someone to have more than one item that's +1 or maybe +2 at high level.
3. End the campaigns around level 12. The game gets really dumb really fast after about that point, which is why so many of the official modules end shortly after that point.
4. Try including the OneDND playtest rules. They nerfed a lot of the most egregious offenders.
5. Don't run WotC modules. That's a waste of your time, IMO. Run stuff like Frog God Games' 5e Rappan Athuk. If your players will be power gamers, run them in campaigns built for power gaming. Get the adventures from Goodman Games or even convert the adventures from OSE's Necrotic Gnome. Having stuff to convert is a bit more engaging, especially if you have to do it on the fly. I don't know if you'd enjoy running this kind of game, but it's a lot less effort to run modules that are built towards the kind of play your players are engaging in than it is to run power gamers in the relatively easy and often poorly structured WotC modules.

 

[J-H]

That's true. However, without the group's buy-in to the adventure, nothing the DM wants to run will be successful. And honestly, I'm so thoroughly defeated by my last experience running that I don't know what would excite me to DM.

And that's really what 5E D&D has been like for me for the past 7-ish years. Players who want me to do everything, and they bring nothing but a character sheet and dice. Meanwhile, the system gives me little assistance in encounter building, guidelines for treasure distribution, and the adventure modules aren't peak either. I've seen every permutation of character build - oh, you have another elf rogue with leather armor and a rapier - that is going to be "sneak attack, bonus action - disengage" for every action?

Oh look, it's another dwarven Life domain cleric! Another elf ranger with a longbow!

I'm just so, so sick of it.

"Guys, I've been DMing for a while and need a break. Here are some books, and you can also get short modules off the DM's Guild, sometimes for free. Who wants to take over for 3 months?"

 

[MichaelSomething]

No gaming is better then bad gaming.

 

[Mort]

No gaming is better then bad gaming.

If the gaming is bad because there is toxicity in the group or the environment is otherwise not enjoyable? 100% agree

If the gaming is "bad" because the DM isn't great (but is trying) or because the players aren't great (but are trying)? Well you have to start somewhere and that can lead to good gaming.