The Monk's Hit Dice Should Be a d8! [Rant]

[IceBear]

Like I said if your going to rules lawyer it.

If stunning attack is a SU, and you have to activate it as a standard action. You can no longer take your attack action, unless your hasted. Because activating a supernatural ability is a standard action. Therefore a monk, could not activate it's supernatural ability and attack in the same round.

So, by saying you have to activate it and allowing the monk to attack your house ruling it anyway. Your giving the monk an extra standard action in a round.

The fact that it says you can only use it once a round and the fact that the stunning fist feat is better, seems to point in the direction that the INTENTION of the rule was that it could just be used as part of an attack sequence. I think people are trying to make things more complicated than they seem. Of course until it's written in stone, in an erratta or FAQ, rules lawyers will rule the day.

Delgar

Hmmmm - I didn't realize that it didn't let you take the action in the same round (I was treating it as a move-eq action, sorry). If that's the case, then I go back to my original stance and rule that it's a part of the attack action (like I said, I could see it either way, but didn't realize that this way was turning a stunning fist into a 2 round process).

IceBear

 

[Liquide]

from the SRD

Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability’s effect can be dispelled if the duration is longer than instantaneous, but a supernatural ability is not subject to counterspells. Supernatural abilities have a default action type of Standard Action.
Abilities use their default action types unless they indicate otherwise.

Stunning Attack(Su) <-- No Questions there

Lets see it is an attack that allows you to Stun an enemy and takes one standard action to perform, I can not see how you get it to that it takes one standard action to "empower" the attack.

How I read it, it takes a Standard Action to perform the attack.

Please explain Delgar where in the rules it says that a (Su) ability takes one Standard Action to prepare and then release it the round after.

on a note a dragons breath weapon is (Su) aswell for some references and does not work this way.

 

[IceBear]

Man, I'm tired today and can't think for myself

Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I switched to Liquide's opinion. Basically using the stunning fist was one action that allowed one attack with it.

With that interpretation, it's not a big deal. I spend one round stunning the guy, and the next I take my full attack action (yes, I know he's not stunned anymore).

If I allow it as part of the "normal" attack action, then it becomes slightly more powerful as I could stun and then followup with more attacks in the same round when he's stunned.

Couldn't really care one way or the other.

IceBear

 

[Storm Raven]

1. Why would it say in the PHB that "the monk can use this ability once per round" if a stunning attack had to be a standard action? Wouldn't that be superfluous?

There are a number of places where the specifics of a rule are restated in a redundant fashion. Assuming that because a general rule is stated specifically in one place does not necessarily imply that the general rule would not apply otherwise.

 

[jontherev]

I agree with Delgar. A monk is a stun specialist imo. Some lame fighter with the SF feat performing a stun attack and 5 follow-up attacks in the same round while his fellow monk is stuck with just one just does NOT sit right with me...nevermind what the rules say that seems to open this up to interpretation. Monks already suck enough in combat without this maiming. You say it's not a big deal?!? I beg to differ, especially at higher levels when that monk is missing many attacks for a (usually) pitiful chance of stunning his foe (due to low dc, high saves, and low attack bonus in comparison to other meleeists). This ruling pretty much either relegates the monk to never using Stunning Fist (except perhaps at very low levels) or practically requiring the monk tumble or Spring Attack away so he's not ripped to shreds. Unless he gets lucky and HITS and also STUNS his foe. Plus, he never gets the benefit of a stunned foe unless he's hasted (directly I mean...of course he benefits indirectly from his buddy fighter taking out that stunned orc).

IME, successful stun attempts are too few for this ruling to be balanced. Now, if you have Ki Straps and a +6 Wis enhancement, placing all level-ups on your Wisdom, and an Amulet of Mighty Fists +5, Weapon Focus Unarmed, an Ioun Stone, a Bard friend...you get my drift. As someone said before, many moons ago, and which I've since stolen, we replaced the Flurry of Blows with Flurry of Misses...for good reason. YMMV and probably does.

Oh yeah...the above was all simply IMHO.

 

[IceBear]

Ah, yes, if a fighter can do this and followup with multiple attacks then a monk should too. Like I said, I can see both sides of this, so this, to me, is just the proof I needed to determine if it was it's own action or part of an attack action

IceBear

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

http://pub17.ezboard.com/fseankreynoldsboardsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=135.topic

The stunning blow isn't actually an action, it's a modifier to an existing action (an attack).

As per the rules, it's limited to once per round, but that's not because it requires a standard action to start

 

[maddman75]

Well, I'm in the 'enhances his attack' camp.

But I'll predict that the Sage will side with liquide, as he uniformly rules for Whatever Would Screw The Players .

 

[hong]

There are other attack effects that are delivered on top of normal attacks that cannot be used with a full attack option. The damage bonus from Dirty Fighting for example.

Which makes the condition of use explicit, IIRC. There is no such explicit prohibition for the stunning attack.

Saying "it is part of an attack" does not negate the fact that it is a supernatural ability.

Did anyone claim it isn't a supernatural ability?

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

But I'll predict that the Sage will side with liquide, as he uniformly rules for Whatever Would Screw The Players .

That's funny... so does my DM!