The Monk's Hit Dice Should Be a d8! [Rant]

[Shard O'Glase]

Actually (this is not to be mean just to state opinions) common sense as good as it sometimes is usually creates the best house-rules we will ever see out there.

The problem here however is to determine if the Stunning Attack is an exception to the rules of Supernatural Abilities (there is nothing in the rules nor description that says otherwise).

So even if the case is that the monk has to use a Standard action to make a Stunning Attack YOU can still rule 0 it , we just want to make sure what it does BY THE RULES.

But remember, roleplaying is to please everyone. If it doesn't fit your style of play Change it.

But then again, don't change anything that aint broke aswell

And by the rules it is part of the monks attack. A SU ability clearly by the rules isn't always a standard aciton to activate. Which ones aren't a standard aciotn well the ones specifically mentioned and the ones that are part of an action.(It's in the FAQ)

This one is part of an action and hence not a standard aciton to activate, it activates as part of the monks attack. I's not necessarry to house rule it, in fact making it a standard aciotn to activate would be the rule 0.

In this case you would use common sense to determine what type of SU ability it was and if it was the type that fell into the standard aciotn category(the general rule) or one if its exceptions(the type that activates as part of an aciton) the flaovr text imples shows it would fall into the excpetion category.

 

[Laslo Tremaine]

One for the dark lord who sits upon his dark throne in the land of Renton where the Shadow lies...

Hey Liquide- Not to be overly nit-picky, but...

Microsoft is in Redmond, not Renton. Boeing does have a factory in Renton (but will probably be closing it sometime in the furture, now that the have moved to Chicago...

 

[Liquide]

Hey Liquide- Not to be overly nit-picky, but...

Microsoft is in Redmond, not Renton. Boeing does have a factory in Renton (but will probably be closing it sometime in the furture, now that the have moved to Chicago...

Sorry lad, it is not written by me but I'll change it.

 

[IceBear]

OK let me take this back at you then
Ki Strike I can go with changes a Monks attack so there I can allow it as an exception to the Supernatural Abilities takes a Standard Action to use.

But what is the diffrence of delivering a Stunning Effect from Delivering a Magic Missle effect in mechanics, please tell me

I cannot see any diffrence in mechanics actually, still Ki Strike differs a lot more and I can understand it as an exception to the Standard Action rule.

Oh and please do not try and read any tone in this post/text since I'm not trying to be mean nor sarcastic, I just try to look at what the rules say.

I know, I'm being friendly too and just debating for debating.

For me, delivering a stunning fist is that it is an enhancement to the normal attack. It is related to the attack's success, and if the attack is successful then the enhancement takes effect.

Having the ability to create a magic missle is a seperate and distinct ability. It is not tied to anything else. If the magic missle attack was only delievered with the punch, the I'd see it as part of the attack action.

IceBear

 

[Liquide]

I know, I'm being friendly too and just debating for debating.

For me, delivering a stunning fist is that it is an enhancement to the normal attack. It is related to the attack's success, and if the attack is successful then the enhancement takes effect.

Having the ability to create a magic missle is a seperate and distinct ability. It is not tied to anything else. If the magic missle attack was only delievered with the punch, the I'd see it as part of the attack action.

IceBear

OK matter of opinion then nothing else , I did send of a question to the sage about this last week (early Thursday morning to be exact). So soon we can have an official ruling about this.

I also asked for all the monks abilities and how Dispelling affected her Supernatural Abilities (since you can dispell any Supernatural ability that has a duration longer then instantenous). So hopefully we can have a clarification in 1-2 weeks.

But back on diffrence in opinion until then, I see the stunning attack as an attack on its own and not an augmentation of the Monks natural ability to deal damage (through its unarmed strikes), the Ki Strike however I see as an ability that changes how the monk attacks works (the argument about it earlier in this thread was just argumentation really).

Stunning attack doesn't really change how all the monk attacks work it is limited to a certain amount of uses per day while Ki strike for example has no such limitation.

 

[IceBear]

I agree -it's a difference of opinion thing. I can see a Stunning attack as a completely seperate thing too. I'm more in favor of the "part of an attack" thing, but I could see it as it's own action like you do.

IceBear

 

[Liquide]

I agree -it's a difference of opinion thing. I can see a Stunning attack as a completely seperate thing too. I'm more in favor of the "part of an attack" thing, but I could see it as it's own action like you do.

IceBear

Well we can agree to disagree at least , and ranting this any longer between just us two cannot really do any good. So fellas please chip in your opinions aswell 'til we get an official ruling on this and see who got it right (and closest to what wording the sage actually will use).

And always nice to have a friendly argument aswell, any person I feel I can be mad at one second and then take a pint of 'ol black Guinness with afterwards and laugh at the whole argument is the winner in my eyes. So Icebear hope I'll have a pint with you some day.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

I've gotta say, the whole Su thing is kind of silly for two reasons:

1. Why would it say in the PHB that "the monk can use this ability once per round" if a stunning attack had to be a standard action? Wouldn't that be superfluous?

2. By these rules, it pays for a monk to pick up the Stunning Fist feat just so she can use it during her full attack option. That's just silly.

 

[IceBear]

Actually, now that I've thought of it some more, I agree with you on the Stunning Fist. I think it's it's own attack action. You can only use it once per round anyway, so it's not like you have 5 attacks which could all be stunning attacks. In that circumstance, everyone would make the first attack as a stunning attack, and if successful, get bonuses to the next four.

It makes sense that the monk gathers his ki and then strikes with one powerful blow to stun.

IceBear

PS I'll take you up on that Guiness

 

[Liquide]

Actually, now that I've thought of it some more, I agree with you on the Stunning Fist. I think it's it's own attack action. You can only use it once per round anyway, so it's not like you have 5 attacks which could all be stunning attacks. In that circumstance, everyone would make the first attack as a stunning attack, and if successful, get bonuses to the next four.

It makes sense that the monk gathers his ki and then strikes with one powerful blow to stun.

IceBear

PS I'll take you up on that Guiness

he he
I'm not here to change your opinion on this topic nor do I want to have followers (and you ruin a perfect argumentation session aswell ).

Still it might be my opion that is wrong and your initial opinion that will be rules as correct by the sage aswell, I just state why I see it one way by the rules.

Nice to see that I have found another chap that likes Guinness as much as I do aswell (we should meet half-way in Iceland just to grab that pint for the sake of it ).

Still we'll see who's right and who's not in a while