The Monk's Hit Dice Should Be a d8! [Rant]
- Thread starter Creamsteak
- Start date
Grim
First Post
Those quotes from the SRD are from the beginning of the DMG, and I that the writer intended it to apply like this:
Some supernatural abilities are what are classified in the MM as "special attacks." They require an action, etc. An antimagic field negates them.
Some supernatural abilities are what are classifed in the MM as "special qualities." They are always "on," unless dispelled/anti-magic fielded/etc. And some of them have a certain number of uses/day.
So dimond body is a special quality. It is always on, etc. so is a monks speed, ki strike, etc. That takes care of that.
Stunning fist, IMHO, is a special attack. The monk *always* has it as an option, unless he uses its "charges/day". Just like a minotaurs "charage attack" special attack, it can be used within any attack action. Its description says it can be used once per round, and up to a monks level per day. So that means it can be used with at most one attack/ round, even with multiple attacks from BAB, and even with haste/etc.
This is just me going out on a limb here, but i would assume from its description that as long as you declare it, you can use "stunning fist" in conjunction with any atttack role (ie, your one attack in a standard action, or ANY ONE of the attacks in a full round attack action, or as an AOO, or even (if possible) with the rogue's oppertunist ability, etc) , as long as you declare it.
If thats against the "rules," well, rule zero. Or just do what my players do. Never tell me that there is a "problem" in the first place. Dont ask, dont tell...
We actually had a monk in the group once who claimed that these "gloves with pointy things attached from sword and fist" did one point extra damage when he used them. And we believed him. He never really abused them, and the group was pretty evenly matched powerwise, so it didnt matter.
Some supernatural abilities are what are classified in the MM as "special attacks." They require an action, etc. An antimagic field negates them.
Some supernatural abilities are what are classifed in the MM as "special qualities." They are always "on," unless dispelled/anti-magic fielded/etc. And some of them have a certain number of uses/day.
So dimond body is a special quality. It is always on, etc. so is a monks speed, ki strike, etc. That takes care of that.
Stunning fist, IMHO, is a special attack. The monk *always* has it as an option, unless he uses its "charges/day". Just like a minotaurs "charage attack" special attack, it can be used within any attack action. Its description says it can be used once per round, and up to a monks level per day. So that means it can be used with at most one attack/ round, even with multiple attacks from BAB, and even with haste/etc.
This is just me going out on a limb here, but i would assume from its description that as long as you declare it, you can use "stunning fist" in conjunction with any atttack role (ie, your one attack in a standard action, or ANY ONE of the attacks in a full round attack action, or as an AOO, or even (if possible) with the rogue's oppertunist ability, etc) , as long as you declare it.
If thats against the "rules," well, rule zero. Or just do what my players do. Never tell me that there is a "problem" in the first place. Dont ask, dont tell...
We actually had a monk in the group once who claimed that these "gloves with pointy things attached from sword and fist" did one point extra damage when he used them. And we believed him. He never really abused them, and the group was pretty evenly matched powerwise, so it didnt matter.
Wolfspider
Explorer
Jeph said:
Where do I find this "Shiba Protector"?
Simulacrum
First Post
I didn't read the whole thread, but with over a year as 3e DM I see the situation quite clear.
Monks are cool, especially in campaigns where you can drop the multiclass restrictions.
They got cool saves and nice features. But running and tumbling through the battlefield to snatch the enemy wizard behind the lines is ridicolous. In a pretty balanced and challanging campaign the monk will NEVER make it to the wizard NEVER. If if he succedes chances are that he is not even able to kill the wizard without help.
If played with fair 32 point buy from DMG calculate hit points through avarage--> any fighter kills the monk in any given level.
Monks are exellent teamplayers but when it get hairy and they are alone they blow big chunks.
Monks are perfect in many situations, because they give the party a very stable basis, a man for every situation, but he is for sure no overpowered smiter who can clear the situation by himself.
Monks need the d8 hit die or they would be minced meat in 3 out of 4 battles.
Even a hasted Monk is hardly a real threat in higher levels, I know our kick ass Monk in our group gets hurt badly everytime it gets rough, often so bad he is unable to participate any longer in the fights.
Best example: The kick ass lvl 10 Monk meets the BBEG Fighter level 10 in a chaotic situation that favours the enemy slightly over the party (like it should be in a worthy challange)...
No matter how hard he will hit the BBEG he will hit him twice or thrice as hard 100%, often with a chance to kill him in round two with a bit of luck.
Monks have good overall defense, but no match to one or more truly comat oriented sods.
Our Monk gets literaly hacked to pieces by 2 lvl 5 Fighters.
Monks are cool, especially in campaigns where you can drop the multiclass restrictions.
They got cool saves and nice features. But running and tumbling through the battlefield to snatch the enemy wizard behind the lines is ridicolous. In a pretty balanced and challanging campaign the monk will NEVER make it to the wizard NEVER. If if he succedes chances are that he is not even able to kill the wizard without help.
If played with fair 32 point buy from DMG calculate hit points through avarage--> any fighter kills the monk in any given level.
Monks are exellent teamplayers but when it get hairy and they are alone they blow big chunks.
Monks are perfect in many situations, because they give the party a very stable basis, a man for every situation, but he is for sure no overpowered smiter who can clear the situation by himself.
Monks need the d8 hit die or they would be minced meat in 3 out of 4 battles.
Even a hasted Monk is hardly a real threat in higher levels, I know our kick ass Monk in our group gets hurt badly everytime it gets rough, often so bad he is unable to participate any longer in the fights.
Best example: The kick ass lvl 10 Monk meets the BBEG Fighter level 10 in a chaotic situation that favours the enemy slightly over the party (like it should be in a worthy challange)...
No matter how hard he will hit the BBEG he will hit him twice or thrice as hard 100%, often with a chance to kill him in round two with a bit of luck.
Monks have good overall defense, but no match to one or more truly comat oriented sods.
Our Monk gets literaly hacked to pieces by 2 lvl 5 Fighters.
Last edited:
Gargoyle, I'm glad you found that sage ruling. Agree with it totally.
On the monk using gauntlets of ogre power, I'd allow it. Granted, by a strict reading of the rules, they should be disallowed. But the gauntlets have no abilities combat wise. The fact that they are gauntlets is just flavor text -- it shouldn't get in the way of an item being available to the monk. Gloves, bracelets, or anything else 'of ogre power' would work just as well.
On the monk using gauntlets of ogre power, I'd allow it. Granted, by a strict reading of the rules, they should be disallowed. But the gauntlets have no abilities combat wise. The fact that they are gauntlets is just flavor text -- it shouldn't get in the way of an item being available to the monk. Gloves, bracelets, or anything else 'of ogre power' would work just as well.
Simulacrum
First Post
Henry said:
thats why every self respecting fighter should a) take at least a short trip to self improvement (take a level of Monk and abandon the class after that)
b) the first two feats taken should be Iron will and Luck of Heroes out of the FRCS. Those three things pump up the saves above needed levels
Very fitting when playing in more eastern settings where mental strength is valued highly in the warrior caste.
