D&D 5E The "more complex" fighter: What are you looking for?

[jackal917]

when you put those restrictions on them, not much...

1 &2 are easy... lots of things aren't covered by BM maneuvers or existing options in the DMG... using them all togather is good, but not great.

3 starts to be the issue, I want to see options for expanded, maybe superhuman skill use, but if we take skill mokey stuff out, then there goes there...

4 is the issue, magic refluffed is a lot of what I want... I want 'go through ressitance (like mountain hammer) I want make extra attacks (like haste) I want healing (warlord 4e or white ravon tactics Bo9S) I want some wuxa options (holcoust cloak and flame blade Bo9S) I want lots of little unque special abilities that a fighter/mage or fighter/cleric has as options but can be used without magic...


I want to make a fighter subclass (or options for battlemaster) that totally break reality... I want the story of what my fighter did as common or at least semi common feats to be things no trained warrior in the real world could do...but things a comic book or movie or novel character might do without him being 'magic spell caster'.


book of 9 swords stances and counters alone give a lot of options... lets look at some good ones

level 1
wind stride is a quick boost of speed...
Burning blade could be remade and still have a lighting or a cold equivalent
Crusaider strike is one of those healing ones
sapphire nightmare blade would have to be overhauled, but both naming and concept are cool
counter charge is a great idea
Hunter's senses are cool, but maybe stepping a bit too much on ranger
sudden leap... I can't belive 'make a jump check as a bonus action that doesn't use your move' isn't in 5e already
flame's blessing and punishing stance could both fit 5e


I just did 1st level, but there is a lot of overlap as you level up...

Baffling defense is a really good one too, make an insight check to dodge an attack could work real well with the battle master 'seeing what's coming'

4e had some good ones too...

warlord had sunder armor that lowered AC
fighter had come and get it



even just improved versions of the PHB ones as you level...

at level 3 I learn parry and ripost... at level 12 I learn how to do both at the same time... a new maneuver that when I am hit I roll my SD and take that much damage off, AND get a free or reaction attack that deals no extra damage from SD or attribute...

now my options look like this... I am attacked by 2 orcs, one misses one hits... I can A) parry the hit and remove 1d10+dex mod damage, B) ripost and attack orc that missed me for 1w+dex+1d10, or C) use this new 'meta' maneuver remove 1d10 damage from orc that hit me and make an attack against him for 1w...

These all sound fairly good, and I think they would be welcome additions to the current fighter.

 

[JohnLynch]

I don't see what your point is. A 5% chance to add on average +50% damage to the attack (assuming you get an average damage roll) is not even really worth considering, and when the damage is as piddly as ray of frosts anyway, it's just a nice perk but nothing to write home about. The real usefulness one gets from wizard cantrips is their status effects, not damage. That -10 speed could easily be the difference between life and death for yourself or a party member, whereas a Fighter who wanted to slow down that same enemy has to either blow a standard action to Shove/Trip and thus do NO damage, or happen to be a Battlemaster and expend a very finite resource to do it and some damage. Superiority Dice really needed to be a recharge every round resource, so fighters actually had something interesting to do, but WotC went back on that very cool bit of design early on. That alone would do wonders for the Fighter. It'd still be less exciting than a full-on action hero warrior, but it'd be better than what we have now.

You seem to be in agreement with me. My point is at-will status effect + damage is not broken. Wizards only suffer a 10%-35% reduction in damage (depending on how good the creatures Saving throw is) to get it. Fighters have to give up 100%-50% of their damage at lower levels to deal status effect attacks. Shove is not comparable to Ray of frost or the other status effects wizards get to dish out because of the damage sacrifice. If advantage (until the creature's turn which could be immediately after the fighter) + halved movement is too powerful to combine with damage at-will at level 1, than offering attacks that deal half of those conditions as well as damage would certainly offer more tactical choices for the fighter that are balanced

 

[bid]

Bid: Wizards get their proficiency bonus to ranged attacks. There's also a chance of Criting.

Right, I missed that, thanks.

Ray of frost is a ranged attack, with wizard +3 Int against AC13 you hit on 8+ and expect 3.15 damage with crit.

Acid splash still does 3.5 since it's a Dex save, so ray of frost is a 10% drop.