D&D 5E The Multiverse is back....

[ThirdWizard]

Oh, hey, I do agree with you. I mentioned earlier upthread that I'm basically shouting at the wind. TSR rammed Planescape into the core identity of D&D and there's no going back now. I just lament the fact that we have to follow this canon because I find it so incredibly stifling to creativity. It's just not my bag and I was hoping that 5e, like 3e and 4e, would strip most of it out again.

C'est la vie.

Really, all you need to do is to tell your players something like "In this game, there is no Great Wheel. I've created my own cosmology. You'll learn about it through play, so make no assumptions about any worlds beyond your own, and be sure to consult sages or do research before interacting with any extra-planar [or whatever you want to call them] creatures. Consider this a warning." Be sure to give them the evil DM look, complete with a smile that will give them nightmares. They won't forget. If they're proactive, make a one page printout for what their characters think the afterlife is like, or whatever, to give them a basis to go off of.

 

[SkidAce]

Really, all you need to do is to tell your players something like "In this game, there is no Great Wheel. I've created my own cosmology. You'll learn about it through play, so make no assumptions about any worlds beyond your own, and be sure to consult sages or do research before interacting with any extra-planar [or whatever you want to call them] creatures. Consider this a warning." Be sure to give them the evil DM look, complete with a smile that will give them nightmares. They won't forget. If they're proactive, make a one page printout for what their characters think the afterlife is like, or whatever, to give them a basis to go off of.

This is the way.

 

[gyor]

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/2013end1

This does sound like they plane to create a metasetting diverse enough to connect all the settings.

This includes Ebborron, Darksun, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Planescape and so on.

But they'll do it by using the Great Wheel and adding new elements to it.

So you have the traditional inner planes, but now you also have the border planes closer to the Prime Material, and the Elemental Chaos behind the pure elemental planes.

This allows for interconnectivity, but also diversity. So maybe FR gets the whole set, but the Nentar Vale setting only gets access to the Elemental Chaos, but not to the Border and Pure Elemental Planes. Maybe another setting gets access to the Border Planes, but access to the Elemental Chaos and Pure plans are blocked off.

Maybe like Darksun all the regular plans are cut off and as such it evovled its own planes, the black and the grey.

And its likely the same idea will be applied to the outer planes.

I love the expanded cosmology, because it allows us to enjoy the best parts of all the cosmologies, and it adds nee stuff to explore, like the new border planes which no doubt draw upon the success of the Feywild and Shadowfell, which have also become border planes.

He doesn't suggest, but I wonder if the outer planes will have border planes or something else that unites the editions the way they did for the Inner Planes?

Perhaps we will have the Astral Plane which will have the Astral Sea, with domains and demiplanes bobbing in it, with the Astral Plane leading to the Outer Planes. But again maybe one can't access the Outer Planes from Ebberron, maybe only as far as the Astral Sea with its domains, or something more Ebberonish, with the Outer Planes mystically blocked, and difficult aor nearly impossible to access from Ebberon. Just a guess.

Oh and the DMG will have alternate cosmologies and tips for creating your own. I don't remember where I heard thjs, but I am positive that it will.

 

[Hussar]

Really, all you need to do is to tell your players something like "In this game, there is no Great Wheel. I've created my own cosmology. You'll learn about it through play, so make no assumptions about any worlds beyond your own, and be sure to consult sages or do research before interacting with any extra-planar [or whatever you want to call them] creatures. Consider this a warning." Be sure to give them the evil DM look, complete with a smile that will give them nightmares. They won't forget. If they're proactive, make a one page printout for what their characters think the afterlife is like, or whatever, to give them a basis to go off of.

This is the way.

Oh sure. And that's the way I have been doing it. What it generally means though is any supplement related to the planes immediately gets stricken from my shopping list because I know it's going to contain absolutely nothing I want to use. Which is a shame really.

On the bright side, since the Far Realms is largely a 3e invention (yes, I know it started earlier than that, but got most of its loving in 3e and later), any time I want to use some extra planar adventuring and don't want to have to re-invent the wheel (sorry about the pun), I can simply plonk down Far Realms goodness and not worry about it at all. I just hope it stays that way.

 

[SkidAce]

Oh sure. And that's the way I have been doing it. What it generally means though is any supplement related to the planes immediately gets stricken from my shopping list because I know it's going to contain absolutely nothing I want to use. Which is a shame really.

On the bright side, since the Far Realms is largely a 3e invention (yes, I know it started earlier than that, but got most of its loving in 3e and later), any time I want to use some extra planar adventuring and don't want to have to re-invent the wheel (sorry about the pun), I can simply plonk down Far Realms goodness and not worry about it at all. I just hope it stays that way.

Love pre-3rd Far Realm. I suspect I look at the prevalence of Far Realm stuff in 3rd and 4th like you do planescape....get your peanut butter out of my chocolate. Stop cramming your lore down my throat...I like my lore.

It is what it is.


My world is also a home brew, in addition to my cosmos. And while like you say, it cuts down on the number of supplements I buy, I don't outright strike stuff from my purchase list.

For example, I have never DM'd the Forgotten Realms, however I bought the 3E version campaign setting. Gold mine of ideas. And some crunch I could re-purpose.

Dont use every monster in every MM either, but I sure buy a lot of them. (I have monster completionist syndrome)

So I hear yah....just wouldn't go so far as to say "absolutely nothing I want to use". YMMV of course.

 

[Savage Wombat]

As long as the Far Realms are getting such loving - where's the good source material for it? Everything I've read - which probably isn't most of it - tries to go all Lovecraftian but basically boils down to "it's where things with too many tentacles come from".

 

[wingsandsword]

I'll say this about the 5e multiverse, it's the first new thing in D&D I've seen in many years that I would incorporate into my own game. Even if I don't use 5e rules, I'm thinking I may use much of the 5e version of the Great Wheel.

I didn't see anything in 4e I wanted to take to my own game. Not in the mechanics, not in the lore/setting.

I like some of the cosmological ideas. Border Elemental planes (I think this idea works a lot better for what they had in mind for the Elemental Chaos of 4e, of an elemental-themed plane that was more suitable for adventuring). Ravenloft being a main plane halfway between Negative Energy and Material, and Faerie (aka Faewild) halfway between Positive Energy and Material.

It's the first change I'll have incorporated into the D&D cosmology I use since 3e added the Plane of Shadow as a transitive plane that only connects Material worlds, instead of the 2e existence of Shadow as a Demiplane. I also added the Far Realm in the 3e era (I know it technically came in during 2e, but was less prominent then, and I wasn't as familiar with it then).

 

[Quickleaf]

I wanted to let folks who do want to use the Great Wheel cosmology in their games that the Planewalker website has their forums open (they had a database crash) and we're starting up the old Planar Renovation Project once more. Lots of good ideas came out of these brainstorming sessions, and they really came up with some cool stuff. Hope we can continue that tradition! www.planewalker.com

 

[Andor]

And the bigger issue for me is how no DnD supplements can ever contradict Planescape canon. It's 100% Planescape or not at all. I really dislike how Planescape is given this privileged position that no other setting gets.

How so? I mean I really don't see it.

The planes are defined as infinite and varied even internally. Ergo whatever you want exist out there including a place where demons and devils sit around singing Kumbaya. Furthermore planescape makes explicit the idea that things are not fixed. Places move and change. Plus going right back to the original depeiction of the planes there are odd connections between planes in places which means that local to wherever you want you can describe whatever you need.

Plus we know that individual prime planes can have unique relationships to the outerplanes. Darksun is the posterboy for this. In spite of the doubly common setting that was explicit in late 2e Athas was it's own place, isolated from the outer planes, and with a Crystal sphere impossibly far from the clustered spheres of the other settings.

You want a world with only the L-N-C alignments of BECMI? Provide planar links only to Mechanus, the outlands and Limbo. Good and evil as extraplanar forces have no meaning in your world now.

Yes, Planescape and the great wheel provide an overarching backdrop. However it is one that can, with perfect internal consistancy, still allow whatever local setup you want for your game.

 

[Hussar]

Because it has been specifically stated to be true? If you want to write for wotc in any capacity and you are doing something planar, it must adhere to Planescape canon.

Heck, read Echohawk's writeup of the drider and how Orcus' death and rebirth altered drider canon.