D&D 5E The Neutral Referee, Monty Haul, and the Killer DM: History of the GM and Application to 5e

[James Gasik]

I agree. WotC in 5e clearly feared changing their own books back in the day. Of course, now they are, IMO, changing them too much, so what do I know?

The changing nature of the fanbase. Sales are in a slump, so now is the time to make more, more, more!

Every time we get a new edition, there's a paucity for sourcebooks early on, but the instant sales start to slump, it's time to crank out more options! More settings!

Don't let players realize they can build their own things, or heaven forbid, use old settings and lore!

TSR did it with 2e, and WotC has always followed a similar model. And even if they didn't want to, Hasbro is sticking their hand out saying "hey kid, gimme your lunch money!" at every turn.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The changing nature of the fanbase. Sales are in a slump, so now is the time to make more, more, more!

Every time we get a new edition, there's a paucity for sourcebooks early on, but the instant sales start to slump, it's time to crank out more options! More settings!

Don't let players realize they can build their own things, or heaven forbid, use old settings and lore!

TSR did it with 2e, and WotC has always followed a similar model. And even if they didn't want to, Hasbro is sticking their hand out saying "hey kid, gimme your lunch money!" at every turn.

You can use old settings and lore, but using old mechanics requires a bit more work. And sometimes, you do need those updated mechanics to make the setting feel right.

 

[overgeeked]

You can use old settings and lore...

Exactly. The settings and lore don't change, unless you want them to.

but using old mechanics requires a bit more work. And sometimes, you do need those updated mechanics to make the setting feel right.

To feel right with the new edition, yes. But sometimes, the old mechanics feel right because that's what you're used to from playing the setting back-in-the-day.

I'll never quite grok why people think they need WotC to sell them mechanics.

 

[James Gasik]

Exactly. The settings and lore don't change, unless you want them to.

To feel right with the new edition, yes. But sometimes, the old mechanics feel right because that's what you're used to from playing the setting back-in-the-day.

I'll never quite grok why people think they need WotC to sell them mechanics.

That new book smell, probably. I mean, if the old books were any good, there wouldn't be a new shiny edition, would there?

 

[Fanaelialae]

Exactly. The settings and lore don't change, unless you want them to.

To feel right with the new edition, yes. But sometimes, the old mechanics feel right because that's what you're used to from playing the setting back-in-the-day.

I'll never quite grok why people think they need WotC to sell them mechanics.

I don't NEED WotC to sell me mechanics.

I can and do homebrew things as I see fit. Ideally, because I'm inspired to do so.

However, I have a good full-time job, so if someone comes up with something I can use, it's far more convenient for me to fork over a few dollars than for me to spend my limited free time reinventing the wheel.

 

[overgeeked]

I don't NEED WotC to sell me mechanics.

I can and do homebrew things as I see fit. Ideally, because I'm inspired to do so.

However, I have a good full-time job, so if someone comes up with something I can use, it's far more convenient for me to fork over a few dollars than for me to spend my limited free time reinventing the wheel.

Sure, but that presupposes we need mechanics to play RPGs in the first place. We don't. That's maybe a better way to say what I was trying to express. The imagination is limitless. Mechanics are limited and limiting. The heavier the mechanics the more limiting they are. RPGs exist in a weird Venn diagram space between limitless imagination and limited mechanics. But we don't need more mechanics than basic task/conflict resolution. For some weird reason the hobby has bought into the idea that we must have lots of bespoke mechanics to play, when we really don't.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Sure, but that presupposes we need mechanics to play RPGs in the first place. We don't. That's maybe a better way to say what I was trying to express. The imagination is limitless. Mechanics are limited and limiting. The heavier the mechanics the more limiting they are. RPGs exist in a weird Venn diagram space between limitless imagination and limited mechanics. But we don't need more mechanics than basic task/conflict resolution. For some weird reason the hobby has bought into the idea that we must have lots of bespoke mechanics to play, when we really don't.

I think of it akin to how a writing prompt can help you write something. Hypothetically speaking, being able to write about anything should be easier. For many people, however, it isn't.

If you want to play a free form RPG, I don't think the WotC ninjas will show up at your house and stop you. Personally, I prefer D&D.

 

[Charlaquin]

Sure, but that presupposes we need mechanics to play RPGs in the first place. We don't. That's maybe a better way to say what I was trying to express. The imagination is limitless. Mechanics are limited and limiting. The heavier the mechanics the more limiting they are. RPGs exist in a weird Venn diagram space between limitless imagination and limited mechanics. But we don't need more mechanics than basic task/conflict resolution.

Limitations breed creativity. Of course, it’s always a trade-off, and everyone will have different thresholds for how much restriction is too much. Sorry current D&D is over that line for you, though it seems to be in a pretty good spot for most folks.

For some weird reason the hobby has bought into the idea that we must have lots of bespoke mechanics to play, when we really don't.

Again, the reason is simple: bespoke mechanics sell books.

 

[overgeeked]

I think of it akin to how a writing prompt can help you write something. Hypothetically speaking, being able to write about anything should be easier. For many people, however, it isn't.

I take your meaning, but I don't think that's the right comparison, at least not in the right place. By that I mean, a writing prompt in an RPG context would be more like a genre pitch or a setting pitch or a theme pitch. "We're going to play space pirates...with magic!" is a writing prompt. But 300+ pages of intricate rules and mechanics is more like...what...Mad Libs. The bulk of the text is already there and spelled out for you. You have options, but they are quite limited. You only get to pick which verb or noun to drop into the predefined blank space.

If you want to play a free form RPG, I don't think the WotC ninjas will show up at your house and stop you.

I'm not necessarily talking about free-form roleplay. But sure.

Personally, I prefer D&D.

To each their own.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I take your meaning, but I don't think that's the right comparison, at least not in the right place. By that I mean, a writing prompt in an RPG context would be more like a genre pitch or a setting pitch or a theme pitch. "We're going to play space pirates...with magic!" is a writing prompt. But 300+ pages of intricate rules and mechanics is more like...what...Mad Libs. The bulk of the text is already there and spelled out for you. You have options, but they are quite limited. You only get to pick which verb or noun to drop into the predefined blank space.

I'm not necessarily talking about free-form roleplay. But sure.

To each their own.

@Charlaquin expressed my meaning more eloquently. "Limitations breed creativity."

Additionally, there's also the mini-game aspect of it (the game within the game). Combat, in particular, is essentially its own mini-game that is encapsulated within the larger role playing game. I really enjoy the puzzle solving aspect of figuring out how to best "solve" a combat encounter. Whether that be figuring out the best resource expenditure for optimal outcome, or (particularly) when it's a looming TPK and I need to find some way to ensure my party's survival.