The (new) Immortals Handbook Thread

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I'm comparing a luck bonus to attack and saves to a luck bonus to skills and ability checks, not a __ bonus to skill checks to a luck bonus to skill checks.

Well isn't that comparison attack/saves/skills/ability checks already in the CR/EL document?

...maybe you were simply pointing out the differences therein, in which case I have picked up wrong on what you were saying.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Kerrick mate!

I've been pondering this statement the last couple days...

Intersting isn't it.

See, no offense, but I don't much care about new monsters - I'm not a DM, so I don't use them, and as a game designer, they're not really my forte, so they hold little interest for me.

Thats okay, can't please all the people all the time...although, c'mon, who doesn't like new monsters.

Magic, and specifically spells, is my thing, and thus your projected addendum is of great interest to me.

Glad I could pique your curiousity.

Since you say that everything came from the PHB, it's obviously not based on the ELH system.

Thats a fair appraisal of the bare bones of both my system and this recent change I have hit upon.

But not necessarily true for dimensional magic, which is another facet of my system.

Once I made that raalization, it almost clicked for me, but not quite - it's like trying to remember a name that's hovering just out of reach of your consciousness.

This recent change is something so obvious, that its hard to see the wood for the trees.

I'm curious, though (and hopefully you can answer this question): is your epic spell system merely an extension of the existing one, where you can simply make spells of 10th, 15th, 30th level, or are there some hard and fast rules like you did for CRs?

Tricky question to answer without blurting everything out.

I do have a system for determining spell level but I don't think its necessary to know it, to be able to use my spell system. In a similar way that you don't need to know the Challenge Rating system, before you can use the Encounter Level system.

Personally I don't like the epic spell system for a myriad number of reasons, so my spell system is not an extension or conversion of that which is in the ELH, although that said its pretty easy to convert spells over, especially given that few of the epic spells are more than mere extensions or combinations of existing spells.

I just find my approach is simpler to use, ostensibly doesn't require any new rules, it even works at non-epic levels, it puts the 'epic' back into epic gaming, its far easier for character creation (PC or NPC), it doesn't make the lower level spells redundant, its far better balanced.

I know with my level-based system, I still have to decide what level the spell will be in the first place before I can tweak everything to fit into place properly (and even then it sometimes doesn't quite happen the way I'd like).

You are always going to face that dilemma if you are introducing some totally new spell property.

I'm really interested to see how your system could handle earthwrack, or some of the other spells that I couldn't recreate.

I'm not familiar with Earthwrack, though I admit I am curious as to why converting particular spells is giving you so much trouble? Feel free to post it here or email me the details and I'll see if I can help, although I reserve the right to keep the secrets of my system safe for now.

 

[Kerrick]

But not necessarily true for dimensional magic, which is another facet of my system.

Dimension magic, huh? I won't even ask, because I know you won't say anything...

I'm not familiar with Earthwrack, though I admit I am curious as to why converting particular spells is giving you so much trouble? Feel free to post it here or email me the details and I'll see if I can help, although I reserve the right to keep the secrets of my system safe for now.

Earthwrack was the spell I was talking about earlier, where it welds the continental plates together and recracks them. It's only been cast once in history, and then only partially; even then it changed the climate so radically that winter was banished for 500 years. It's got a ridiculous amount preparation to go into it:

The caster must make one menhir each week of the year; they must be virgin stone, and no worked tools can have touched any stone within 1 mile of them. Each must be quarried 10 miles apart. They must be carved with runes by blind dwarves with bone chisels, who are buried alive after their work is complete. The caster sacrifices 2,000 creatures with SR, 100 HD each of air, earth, fire, water elementals, 250 HD of fiends, 50 HD of celestials, and cave in the heads of 100 druids at least 5th level; he must sacrifice half his XP (note: this was 1E, so I don't know how it would work now). The ritual takes 30 days to cast. The end result is that everything on the planet takes 100d6, no save.

Now you see why I'm having trouble converting that?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Kerrick mate!

Dimension magic, huh? I won't even ask, because I know you won't say anything...

Dimensional Magic probably sounds more exotic than it is, but you're right in that I don't necessarily want to discuss it at this juncture.

Earthwrack was the spell I was talking about earlier, where it welds the continental plates together and recracks them. It's only been cast once in history, and then only partially; even then it changed the climate so radically that winter was banished for 500 years. It's got a ridiculous amount preparation to go into it:

The caster must make one menhir each week of the year; they must be virgin stone, and no worked tools can have touched any stone within 1 mile of them. Each must be quarried 10 miles apart. They must be carved with runes by blind dwarves with bone chisels, who are buried alive after their work is complete. The caster sacrifices 2,000 creatures with SR, 100 HD each of air, earth, fire, water elementals, 250 HD of fiends, 50 HD of celestials, and cave in the heads of 100 druids at least 5th level; he must sacrifice half his XP (note: this was 1E, so I don't know how it would work now). The ritual takes 30 days to cast. The end result is that everything on the planet takes 100d6, no save.

Now you see why I'm having trouble converting that?

Well it would take about 30 seconds to convert to my system (honest), but I can see why its giving you (and the epic spell system) some gip.

Its not totally clear what type of damage is being dealt. I am assuming 'earthquake' damage, but there may be some volcanic activity as well.

Incidently I estimate that actually reshaping the planets surface would deal over 900d6 damage to structures and variable damage to creatures depending on whether they were on open ground or inside structures etc. Given the effect is global, the shockwaves would continue for a few rounds, diminishing probably by 50% each subsequent round. The dust thrown up by the seismic activity could potentially blot out the sun for years in addition to causing slow suffocation on all unprotected breathing creatures. Initially temperatures would sharply rise (heat displacement and volcanic activity), then cool drammatically as the heat from the sun is blocked by the dust (severe heat to severe cold probably).

It should be possible to reshape a planet without all the collateral damage, but that would actually be higher level.

I don't exactly want to show you how it converts to my system (as that would give too much away), but suffice to say it would be done very easily indeed.

Any others that were giving you problems?

 

[Sledge]

So is it done yet?

 

[Kerrick]

Well it would take about 30 seconds to convert to my system (honest), but I can see why its giving you (and the epic spell system) some gip.

Well actually, I'm using my own system that's based on the epic spell system, but yeah - it can't really be done my way. I'm not really sure about all the details on the spell - what kind of damage it does, its effects, etc. - my DM (the spell came from his old group) told me what it did and what it required. I'm not even sure he knows all of it, since it was only cast the once, but we could easily come up with effects, but since no one could cast it anyway, it'd be a moot point. BTW, what level would it come out to?

Any others that were giving you problems?

Just one, really - a spell called eternal night, which draws a blanket of darkness across an area up to one mile radius/level. Even shrinking the level down to 1/4 mile/level, it's simply too big to do, but I'm sure it'd be easy for you. We have a few others like create city (which I might be able to do), genies's wish, and hammer strike (I mentioned this one earlier - it makes the core of the world ring like a bell) that I dismissed out of hand as "can't be done". I don't really have details on those, sorry.

I think I figured out your secret. I got up in the middle of the night to take a leak, and thought about it while I was half-asleep, and it hit me. It IS obvious, once you think of it, and very elegant. I'll be very interested to see the whole thing when you decide to reveal it.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Sledge mate!

So is it done yet?

Very nearly.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Kerrick matey!

Well actually, I'm using my own system that's based on the epic spell system,

I know.

but yeah - it can't really be done my way.

I can explain why you can't convert it, but doing so would sort of mean spilling the beans on my own system.

I'm not really sure about all the details on the spell - what kind of damage it does, its effects, etc. - my DM (the spell came from his old group) told me what it did and what it required. I'm not even sure he knows all of it, since it was only cast the once, but we could easily come up with effects,

Exactly. It wouldn't really matter. You could easily convert the spell as written (using my system), however, in my estimation reshaping a planets surface would actually be more damaging as I outlined previously.

but since no one could cast it anyway, it'd be a moot point.

Of course, but then thats a trait of the epic spell system itself - its impossible to do anything epic with it.

BTW, what level would it come out to?

I presume you mean what level of my system? I suspect a straight conversion of your spell would be in the mid 40's, a conversion of my interpretation probably mid 50's. Of course thats just a guess.

Just one, really - a spell called eternal night, which draws a blanket of darkness across an area up to one mile radius/level. Even shrinking the level down to 1/4 mile/level, it's simply too big to do, but I'm sure it'd be easy for you.

Yes, all this stuff is easy peasy with my system (as you may have already worked out), but it does show up the scale limitations of the epic spell system I'm sure you'll agree.

We have a few others like create city (which I might be able to do), genies's wish, and hammer strike (I mentioned this one earlier - it makes the core of the world ring like a bell) that I dismissed out of hand as "can't be done". I don't really have details on those, sorry.

Thats okay.

I think I figured out your secret. I got up in the middle of the night to take a leak, and thought about it while I was half-asleep, and it hit me. It IS obvious, once you think of it, and very elegant. I'll be very interested to see the whole thing when you decide to reveal it.

Email me what you think it is and I'll tell you if you have it sussed or not.

...but no blubbing the details afterwards if you please.

 

[Kerrick]

Of course, but then thats a trait of the epic spell system itself - its impossible to do anything epic with it.

I know... :/ With mine, you can do cool stuff, though the really big, reshape-the-face-of-the-world spells are still a bit out of reach. But that's okay, I guess... how often is someone going to cast one of thsoe anyway?

I presume you mean what level of my system? I suspect a straight conversion of your spell would be in the mid 40's, a conversion of my interpretation probably mid 50's. Of course thats just a guess.

Sounds about right. The highest level spell we have right now is around 37th (I haven't quite worked out all the details yet) - it raises 200 HD of undead as military commanders, which in turn raise other undead to serve under them, which in turn... you get the idea... all the way down to squad level. In total, it raises something like 10,000 HD of undead, but only the main commanders are under the caster's control - they issue commands to those under them.

Email me what you think it is and I'll tell you if you have it sussed or not.

...but no blubbing the details afterwards if you please.

I will do that... and don't worry, my lips are sealed.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Kerrick mate!

I know... :/ With mine, you can do cool stuff, though the really big, reshape-the-face-of-the-world spells are still a bit out of reach. But that's okay, I guess... how often is someone going to cast one of thsoe anyway?

Well certainly not with the epic level rules.

...of course, with another set of rules it might not be so improbable.

Sounds about right. The highest level spell we have right now is around 37th (I haven't quite worked out all the details yet) - it raises 200 HD of undead as military commanders, which in turn raise other undead to serve under them, which in turn... you get the idea... all the way down to squad level. In total, it raises something like 10,000 HD of undead, but only the main commanders are under the caster's control - they issue commands to those under them.

I will do that... and don't worry, my lips are sealed.