D&D (2024) The new spell creation rules

Yaarel

He Mage
Sorcerers don't have an identity, or they have too many.
More and more, I am viewing the Sorcerer as a "physicalization of planar energies".

On the one hand, this physicalization emphasizes that physical body itself is magical. The Sorcerer embodies magic, literally − the bloodline sotospeak.

On the other hand, the magic that is physicalizing is clearly planar in origin.
• Celestial Planes (Good): Divine Soul
• Elemental Plane (Air): Storm Sorcery
• Elemental Chaos: Wild Magic
• Farrealm: Aberrant Mind
• Material Plane: Draconic Bloodline
• Material Plane: Lunar Sorcery
• Mechanus (Lawful Neutral Plane): Clockwork Soul
• Shadowfell: Shadow Magic

It looks like the multiversal plane itself is incarnating.

This is distinctive flavor, matches the official lore, and is solid to develop further. This otherworldliness feels right for the name "sorcerer".

Planar embodiment makes the identity of the Sorcerer quite different from other kinds of mages.
 

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sure, so every day you can add a modified spell to your arsenal for pretty cheap. A high level wizard therefore, only needs a small amount of gold (relatively to the 1000s and 1000s they have racked up at this point), and a few weeks of downtime, to have a completely modified spellbook.
That's actually super cool and makes Wizard a very fun class imo at high levels.
 

Stalker0

Legend
You certainly have a point... but now wizards and sorcerers have the same spell list, the same number of spells, both having "spell modification" as their signature feature. Why do we even have two separate classes?
Because you have ignored THE reason to play a Wizard, the ritual casting and the ability to add spells to your spellbook.

The ability for a wizard to ritual cast any spell in their book is HUGE. It gives them a large amount of spells they never have to prepare, and that are always available to them.

The ability to add more spells to their book is HUGE. It gives them way more spells known than a sorc can dream of, and they can afford to have the niche utility spells that are only used once in a while.

Everyone is focused on modify spell, but honestly the bigger spell may be Memorize Spell. Its a ritual, so in a meer 11 minutes the wizard can swap any spell for one in their book. Its the ultimate in utility, oh we need divinations today, I get it. Oh wow we have to go to a fire cave, yeah let me get protection from energy going, just a quick stop all.
 
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Stalker0

Legend
You can only use Wish once a day? You said you'd use it for Modify Spell, not Create Spell.
Your right getting them mixxed up.

You cast Modify Spell normally, use Wish to cast create spell, and cast scribe spell normally for a small cost. So in total only 50 gp per spell level to put a modified spell in your book.
 

fuindordm

Adventurer
More and more, I am viewing the Sorcerer as a "physicalization of planar energies".

This is distinctive flavor, matches the official lore, and is solid to develop further. This otherworldliness feels right for the name "sorcerer".

Planar embodiment makes the identity of the Sorcerer quite different from other kinds of mages.

Yes, planar embodiment and bloodlines make for a good story to explain the source of a playyer's magic. But they do not do a good job of explaining the unique rule options attributed to sorcerers.

Among all these origins, only 1 or 2 justify the emphasis on random/chaotic magic (and "elemental chaos" was uniquely 4e, not really a standard component of D&D multiverses).

In practice, sorcerer bloodlines and wizard specialties are both well represented by creating a strongly themed list of 10-15 spells and 2-4 unique magical abilities unlocked by the subclass.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
Your right getting them mixxed up.

You cast Modify Spell normally, use Wish to cast create spell, and cast scribe spell normally for a small cost. So in total only 50 gp per spell level to put a modified spell in your book.
At level 17, high enough to cast Wish, I expect this kind of thing.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
Yes, planar embodiment and bloodlines make for a good story to explain the source of a playyer's magic. But they do not do a good job of explaining the unique rule options attributed to sorcerers.
I agree, while the narrative of planar embodiment is there, the mechanics need to do more to actualize these narratives mechancially during gameplay.

Among all these origins, only 1 or 2 justify the emphasis on random/chaotic magic (and "elemental chaos" was uniquely 4e, not really a standard component of D&D multiverses).
I agree. Only the Wild Magic Sorcerer − who embodies the Elemental Chaos − should be tapping into its Elemental randomness.

In practice, sorcerer bloodlines and wizard specialties are both well represented by creating a strongly themed list of 10-15 spells and 2-4 unique magical abilities unlocked by the subclass.
I wish modified Spell School lists would inform the spells of each class. Different classes and subclasses would have different spell schools. For example "Elemental" magic corresponds to Evocation (Air, Fire, Water) and Transmutation (Earth, Plant, and Animal). Enchantment is psychic and psionic magic. And so on.
 
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Stalker0

Legend
At level 17, high enough to cast Wish, I expect this kind of thing.
shrug, its a massive power boost. When people talk about the Simulacrum cheese, they still consider it broken even for that high a level. Is having every spell in your spellbook heavily modified so that concentration breaking doesn't matter anymore, friendly fire doesn't matter anymore, energy resistances practically don't matter anymore..... is that broken or just "the expectation of high level play".

Everyone will have their take I guess.
 

Dausuul

Legend
I feel like the academic identity of the wizard is well established and giving them rules (not necessarily spells) to modify and invent new spells is aligned with that identity.

Sorcerers don't have an identity, or they have too many. The current playtest attempts to make both random/wild magic and metamagic part of their core identity. There is something contradictory about that: are sorcerers good at controlling their magic, or are they bad at it?? How do all the different sorcerer subclasses/heritages fit into this? Is dragon magic inherently chaotic? How about a clockwork soul sorcerer?

In fact we DO NOT need both. The only reason for the sorcerer to exist is to fulfil the story trope of "innate magic" but the wizard class does this just as well with some minor flavor changes. We could have just one class with a L1 option : spellbook (bonus: unlimited spells known) or innate (bonus: sorcery points fungible with spell slots).

Randomized/chaos magic, on the other hand, belongs in a subclass or spell school, not in a class' core identity.
If I were redesigning the sorcerer from scratch, I would base it on the 5E warlock design (the original one, not the new one which is a hot mess IMO). You get a set of innate, at-will abilities -- beefed-up cantrips, basically -- plus a couple of high-end spell slots, and an ability that lets you recover those spell slots with 1 minute of rest, usable twice per day. I'm not the first to observe that the warlock system fits the sorcerer concept like a glove.

Before the playtest, I would have said this level of change was out of scope for 1D&D, which I expected to be something bigger than the 3E -> 3.5E transition but a good deal smaller than 1E -> 2E. However, it looks as if 1E -> 2E is where they're at, so maybe it's possible.

But, as I said, the 1D&D team seems to have a very narrow vision of what constitutes good class design, and it's causing their designs (their caster designs, at least, I haven't dug as deep on the martial side) to converge on a cookie-cutter model. Everyone prepares spells, everyone has neo-Vancian casting and recovers slots on a long rest, classes within a group share spell lists.

Because you have ignored THE reason to play a Wizard, the ritual casting and the ability to add spells to your spellbook.

The ability for a wizard to ritual cast any spell in their book is HUGE. It gives them a large amount of spells they never have to prepare, and that are always available to them.
That's one half of a justification for separate classes. The other half is "What's the reason to play a sorcerer?"
 

Stalker0

Legend
I'm not the first to observe that the warlock system fits the sorcerer concept like a glove.
Yeah frankly if the sorceror had just had the warlocks kit, and the warlock had been like a subclass of sorceror (you have acquired your innate power by binding your soul with an eldritch being), I don't think anyone would have batted an eye.

It does seem so weird that the innate magic user, the literal font of magic, has limited magics compared to this upstart over here that signed a deal and can now just do stuff all day every day.
 

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