D&D 5E The paladin conundrum

[Saeviomagy]

Vengeance paladins are fairly single-target combat focused, and are a solidly built class. The other classes in your party are typically considered much weaker in general (hence WoTC's moves to rewrite the ranger) and are also much less combat focused. Additionally the paladin's combat power is pretty much directly linked to his daily resources.

In short - look to your underperformers and pander to them. Fights with swarms of smaller foes, more encounters per day and less purely combat encounters will all lean away from your paladin's strengths, and will make for a more varied and interesting game.

 

[Tanaka Chris]

Ehh, if you had some reason story wise to have a king poisoned, I see no reason why THAT poison should not be special and out of his class ability to heal.

For example, the poison may be caused by magic, the Paladin can heal the poison, but the Spell is an insidious one which slowly emits MORE poison.
Every Lay on Hands, alleviates the problems, but doesn't tackle the source which is magical in nature.

Quest time: Find out who/what/why the King is poisoned!! The Clerics can sustain his life for 3 days!

 

[Saeviomagy]

Ehh, if you had some reason story wise to have a king poisoned, I see no reason why THAT poison should not be special and out of his class ability to heal.

Well, that kind of thing is just a part of D&D since forever. As characters level up, certain things will no longer be challenges for them. A poison is a low level challenge, along with pit traps, wide rivers and inclement weather.

 

[Arcshot]

To counter PC with high AC, I use Rust Monsters at appropriate situations. I will use curses/banes to wither down a PC's fighting prowess as well. Introduce curse on holy-looking item. Paralyze him with magic for a few turns if needed.

Enemies that work effectively in a group can also be used against a lone PC. For my current campaign, I am introducing a Vengeance Paladin NPC to be rescued. The captors are Hobgoblins with their Warlord. Hobgoblins have martial advantage and leadership, particularly good for taking down single entity like a lone Paladin with a few hobs surrounding it.

The trick is not too be too obvious such that the paladin PC feels you are biased and deliberately throwing stuff to bring him down to his knees.

 

[Arcshot]

Well, that kind of thing is just a part of D&D since forever. As characters level up, certain things will no longer be challenges for them. A poison is a low level challenge, along with pit traps, wide rivers and inclement weather.

Maybe try replacing poison with withering curse.

 

[Desh-Rae-Halra]

Another thing, depending on your story, is that you are in Athas. It is a desert world with harsh conditions. Let the Ranger shine by putting the party out in the wilderness, either on a trip that saps their supplies or with few supplies to begin with. Even if the Paladin can go days without food and water and dealing with the heat with stupid high con saves, I bet the rest of the party can't and it will allow the ranger to do what they are good at. Ranger's (especially archer hunters in my opinion) truly shine against large groups of enemies in combat. In fact, between him and the monk/warlock you probably have some great aoe potential. Swarm them, and let those players use those abilities.

For the rogue, he needs to do what rogues do. Be sneaky and slippery and hit an allies target almost as hard as the paladin does (paladin smite, probably around 4d8+mod, rogue sneak attack probably around 5d6+mod or bigger).

I would not take anything away from the paladin without getting some consent or acknowledgement from them. Otherwise they may feel they are being punished for doing nothing wrong and that won't be good for the group overall. Besides, if you feel the problem is he isn't earning his power, he has an oath to the king, give him some role-playing issues that high saves might not get him out of. Remember, even a 30 on a persuasion roll won't necessarily mean anything. Try convincing a devout cleric to forsake their god cause you say so, no amount of persuasion is going to make that happen. Changing the mind of a power mad sorcerer-king...

I'm completely with Chaosmancer and Green1: Dont strip away the Paladins abilities.
I think it was mentioned in some fashion, give each character a Story Arc, the Paladin will have his/hers in taking vengeance on a single BBEG, the Ranger might track down something or lead the party behind enemy lines, where if the party is noticed, could be overwhelmed, I dont know what the monk is going to do, but figure that out. Each character should get the spotlight in some way.

 

[n0nym]

I'm completely with Chaosmancer and Green1: Dont strip away the Paladins abilities

I probably won't, you're right. It will only frustrate the player. Going "gritty realism" is appealing but I think it's too late unfortunately, especially since the Arcane Trickster is finally getting Invisibility and might not like being "nerfed". Instead, I'll try to boost the Ranger by making Primeval Awareness a lvl 1 spell and replacing it with something combat oriented and linked to favored ennemies. For the Monk, he's probably going to be killed by the other characters soon so it's not really a problem anymore (he's become half-snake after drinking some yuan-ti juice...).

I think it was mentioned in some fashion, give each character a Story Arc

They all have one already, and they're rather intricate. But since I usually deal with their story arcs individually, the paladin isn't a problem then. It's only a problem when we're all gathered around the same table and my friend goes all "I charge (he's got charger) the bad guy, smite him, kill him, then I save the girl and heal her dying father. What do you guys do ?".

Anyway, I think I'll try to diversify encounters : hordes, long-range, multi-part and aerial encounters are all great ideas. And curses instead of poison / disease, why didn't I think of it ?

 

[hecetv]

Why is him killing stuff even an issue. I play a rogue in the campaign I'm in now and I'm very happy when our paladin lays down the hurt on enemies. I much prefer combat ends quick and I can get back to doing what I do which is being a skill monkey. I get that it sucks when you feel useless in combat, and I guess rogues have less that problem because rolling a handful of d6 is always fun, but for the ranger and stuff he has his own abilities. Obviously a vengeance paladin will excel at killing stuff that's like their whole thing. And Paladins in general have some of the best healing abilities in the game. And some people think of paladins as the top tier class in 5e to the extent that tiers exist. So I get where your party is coming from but idk. Can you talk to them about how it's a team game and smiting things quick is the paladin's game?

I think everyone's advice about putting in more thiefy and tracky parts for the other players are good. Make some more mobility requiring encounters if you really want to.

But I would be so happy (and am happy in my party) to have someone who is the ultimate combat guy in my party.

 

[n0nym]

Why is him killing stuff even an issue.

Well, it's not per-se. It's only an issue because he's better at killing stuff than everyone, and also better (or as good) at doing stuff that should be their specialty. The ranger player is particularly frustrated because the paladin has mostly the same spells, but also gets to convert them to deal crazy damage while the ranger has Primeval Awareness, which everyone finds ridiculously underpowered.

But there's more : my players like challenging fights. Unfortunately, if I make fights challenging for the AC21 killing machine paladin, it becomes deadly for everyone else. And if I make it challenging for the others, it's a cakewalk. That's why I was looking for ways to entertain everybody, not just one player. And I think the advice I received here are spot on.

 

[JackOfAllTirades]

To counter PC with high AC, I use Rust Monsters at appropriate situations. I will use curses/banes to wither down a PC's fighting prowess as well. Introduce curse on holy-looking item. Paralyze him with magic for a few turns if needed.

Enemies that work effectively in a group can also be used against a lone PC. For my current campaign, I am introducing a Vengeance Paladin NPC to be rescued. The captors are Hobgoblins with their Warlord. Hobgoblins have martial advantage and leadership, particularly good for taking down single entity like a lone Paladin with a few hobs surrounding it.

The trick is not too be too obvious such that the paladin PC feels you are biased and deliberately throwing stuff to bring him down to his knees.

Metal armor/weapons are supposed to be rare in the Dark Sun setting. (Unless that's changed; it's been a while since I looked at it.) Scarcity of good armor and weapons should be a limiting factor for the Paladin to begin with -- no rust monster needed.

The paladin relies on Heavy Armor and Heavy Weapons more than the other classes mentioned in this thread (although they can smite with anything) so enforcing campaign rules on available equipment (and breakage!) should hinder the paladin more than the other classes.