The Paladin killed someone...what to do?

[Voadam]

Forceuser, you keep saying paladins are exemplars of their gods and their first duties are to their gods and their gods' standards. In 3e they don't need to follow any gods. They need to be LG, not do evil actions, and not grossly violate the code. The rest is optional.

 

[ForceUser]

not do evil actions

Killing the halfling under the circumstances outlined by the OP is evil.

Furthermore, regardless of whether they follow a god or an ideal, they must still adhere to the same standards of goodness and righteousness, as defined by the PHB or, if you use it, the BoED.

 

[Andor]

The bottom line is that there is no written rule that clearly and concisely presents a solution to this situation (if there were, this thread wouldn't exist) - in the end, GM fiat must be applied to resolve the debacle. Which make me wonder... if alignments and the Paladin's code are so poorly worded as to cause this much debate without providing a clear solution, why then, do they exist at all?

You said it yourself. It provides conflict, and that's why we game. Paladins are (ironically) one of the great sources of 'grey areas' and passionate RPing opportunities.

If you don't want confusion about the code, write up the one for that Paladin and be specific.

Not chaotic, just evil. Read the paladin's code again. No evil acts, but you can perform chaotic acts, just so long as your alignment stays lawful. So don't make a habit of starting anarchist uprisings or anything.

But you can't violate your code, and your code is usually assumed to be pretty lawful in nature. And how exactly was this meaningful to the discussion of his situation or to my suggestion to resolve it?

depends on how much background you have.

the Original Paladin in Supplement I Greyhawk (1975) lost his powers immediately. FOREVER.

True but irrelevant. The discussion is about the rules as they stand now. And I'm all for anything that let's the action take place in game and gives the opportunity for more roleplaying. Although I have to admit I was surprised to see a Paladin can atone for even an evil act now. (Although not a Hexblade who turns good, even though it's an arcane class with no supernatural tie-ins. The hell?)

Honestly guys, Mine was one of the very few posts in this 6 page thread to offer advice about the actual in game situation Galfridus asked for help with, but it seems everyone would rather argure generalities and irrelevancies than actually be helpful.

 

[jasper]

This breaks down into a couple of reactions but let me sum up correct me if I wrong
A paladin who is a noble in Kingdom x with legal powers of High, Middle, and Low justice, (He can be judge jury but can’t give the death penalty) who has a grant from Kingdom y with the same powers . He almost kills a person who involved in an attack on his wife.

0. How black and white is this campaign?
1. What will his god do? From the info given, he will be talking with the main man. Powers lost depends.
2. What will his order do? Campaign specific I can’t help.
3. What will his kingdom do? He is a noble causing problems in friendly kingdom. Great rp coming up. Will he be stripped of his noble powers? Fined? Tossed into jail?
4. What will kingdom he in do? What laws did the guy break in this city? See 3.

 

[Numion]

Killing the halfling under the circumstances outlined by the OP is evil.

I don't think it was evil. In the Paladin Code of Conduct it falls under the 'Punishing those who harm or threaten innocents'. In any case the evil halfling was furthering the cause of evil, and was dealt with accordingly.

You could argue that strangling the Frodo was a bit on the 'cruel and unusual' side of punishments, but in the context it probably wasn't much worse than what's in store for break & enter and murder accomplices anyway in medieval court. (Actually, it's probably better).

 

[diaglo]

True but irrelevant. The discussion is about the rules as they stand now.

but to truly understand why the rules are the way they are now you have to know how they came into the system.

Honestly guys, Mine was one of the very few posts in this 6 page thread to offer advice about the actual in game situation Galfridus asked for help with, but it seems everyone would rather argure generalities and irrelevancies than actually be helpful.

mine was the 2nd post to this thread and it answered the OP dilemna exactly.

 

[Voadam]

But you can't violate your code, and your code is usually assumed to be pretty lawful in nature.

The code is about honorable combat, protecting the innocent and smiting the wicked, not about law. And a paladin can violate it. Only gross violations of the code will revoke a paladin's powers.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I don't think it was evil. In the Paladin Code of Conduct it falls under the 'Punishing those who harm or threaten innocents'. In any case the evil halfling was furthering the cause of evil, and was dealt with accordingly.

so you quote the code, then add your own bit to fit it in? I don't see "furthering the cause" or "aiding or abetting" anywhere in there. The halfing was only threatening or harming by a modern legalistic interpretation. We have no proof he is even evil. And punishment for every crime is not death.

And thats leaving aside the respect for legitamate authority issue, in which even if the halfling deserved to die (very iffy for being the disctraction in an unspcified assault where no one was killed) the paladin did not have the right to do it or any need to do it suddenly and without investigation.

"Field justice" is only granted to people in the field. The OP made it clear early on that the paladin had no legal right to kill this person in this situation, and no pressing need to do so, so why do people keep trying to rewrite the scene in their own campaign?

 

[Kahuna Burger]

The code is about honorable combat, protecting the innocent and smiting the wicked, not about law. And a paladin can violate it. Only gross violations of the code will revoke a paladin's powers.

I think killing a helpless prisoner who may or may not be evil, in a situation where there is no threat to the paladin or anyone else in keeping him alive qualifies as a gross violation of the "honor" section. The only questions I see here are how much paladiny goodness to remove, what he has to do to get it back, and if the player should get a warning first.

 

[Old Fezziwig]

In any case the evil halfling was furthering the cause of evil, and was dealt with accordingly.

The OP's already said that the paladin didn't know if the halfling was evil, and, as others have pointed out, there's the chance that the halfling was coerced or somesuch.