The Past & Future of D&D

[Rel]

You have to be careful in trying to equate any slowing in sales figures to a decline of the "3e fad." Because our economy has been in a depressed condition for the last year and a half or so, sales figures are down in all industries. RPGs, as essentially a frivolous luxury item, are going to be one of the first consumers cut when budgets are tight.

None of this means the game itself is in any danger of having peaked, it just means that the timing was coincidentally bad. If the market were to absolutely take off this next year, then we should expect to see a resurgence in consumer spending across all industries, including RPGs.

That's an interesting perspective, Joshua. I'm sure you are correct to an extent, but I've always considered RPG products to be one of the best entertainment investments for the money.

In a depressed economy, I think you would be much better off to cut things like going to first run movies or eating at expensive restaurants because the "dollars per hour" of enjoyment you get from them is much more costly than you'd get from buying RPG products. Now of course if you have to pick between a new module and food for the baby, you will cut your purchases of RPG products. But anybody living above the "poverty level" has some amount of disposable income to spend on entertainment and I think that RPG products will net you more fun for a lower cost than almost any other form of entertainment.

I've been impacted by the bad economy too (I got laid off but thankfully eventually found another - better paying - job) but instead of cut back on RPG products, I decided to make an 80% across the board reduction on what I spent on ale and whores.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Eh. D&D will always remain a minority pursuit because most people don't have a particular interest in playing make-believe games taking place in make-believe worlds. The real world is plenty interesting enough for them.

For what it's worth, I agree with this. It's the same with anything really - every hobby, sport, or intellectual pursuit doesn't appeal to everyone. There are plenty of imaginative people out there who have never gamed, or, if they haven't heard of such a hobby, wouldn't game if they did know about it.

Also, if the d20 movement seems to be losing steam, I'm guessing it has more to do with the bandwagon-jumpers finally jumping off. That is, a lot of people jumped on board initially because 3e was the new fad. Now, we see those people getting tired of the fad and going off to find another, leaving the core group of people behind who will remain interested.

 

[starkad]

As a WAG, I would say that there was a spike in sales of the game when 2nd edition was released, just as there has been when the 'not entirely D&D' system of 3E was released.

MerricB, I don't entirely follow you here...

3E, while not being a favorite for all old-time gamers, still holds true to the spirit of DnD, at least in my opinion.

Personally, I found it to be the best logical system so far, combined with ease of use, and easy learning curve.

I've been playing since I was 8. I'm now 26. That's 18 years, with only a couple of smallish breaks from it. I knew 2e inside and out, had all the books, etc. My gaming groups always hated the system, and it became a 'hey you, yeah you, GM! do all the math and tell me what to roll and tell me if i hit!'... Whereas now, it is more like my players are interested in knowing the system, and can follow it easier. I like that feeling, and I further like how it is bringing in a new generation of gamers.

I think the popularity waned mostly because of the sheer difficulty for new players to learn.

 

[MerakSpielman]

There are a few other factors that could influence the popularity of D&D (and PnP RPGs in general).

You can't just go and buy the books and start having fun, like you can with video games. You need a group - at least two (and usually more) people that need to play together.

It's tough to play in a single session. People are generally forgiving of books (though magazine articles that can be read in a single sitting are very popular). A good, engaging D&D game requires all of the several people that you were lucky enough to find to also find enough spare time on a regular basis to continue to play. D&D at this point becomes a social responsibility - and most people have lots of those already. Most people who play one-shot, single session games have grown accustomed to the rules by already participating in full campaigns. You can't really have some friends over and pull out your D&D books and say, "hey I got this cool game. Let's play" like you can with cards, boardgames, or video games.

 

[Desdichado]

That's an interesting perspective, Joshua. I'm sure you are correct to an extent, but I've always considered RPG products to be one of the best entertainment investments for the money.

In a depressed economy, I think you would be much better off to cut things like going to first run movies or eating at expensive restaurants because the "dollars per hour" of enjoyment you get from them is much more costly than you'd get from buying RPG products. Now of course if you have to pick between a new module and food for the baby, you will cut your purchases of RPG products. But anybody living above the "poverty level" has some amount of disposable income to spend on entertainment and I think that RPG products will net you more fun for a lower cost than almost any other form of entertainment.

I've been impacted by the bad economy too (I got laid off but thankfully eventually found another - better paying - job) but instead of cut back on RPG products, I decided to make an 80% across the board reduction on what I spent on ale and whores.

Well, that's part of it -- especially for real roleplaying enthusiasts (like us, or we wouldn't be posting here.) But even I cut down on RPG expenses relative to other items due to external forces, and I'm a real RPG fanatic, with a fairly decent disposable income and job stability to boot.

For the "run of the mill" player, who doesn't buy too much besides a few core books and doesn't think too much about games except when he's actually playing them, it'd be real easy to cut down on the moola spent on RPGs if you're watching your budget more carefully. And for the real aficionados who buy way more stuff than they actually use, the temptation to cut back on your spending on all those books when your financial situation is somewhat uncertain is easy too.

To use a more personal example, as I said, I'm not worried about losing my job at this point, and I make pretty good money. However, I've got three kids, my wife doesn't make any money, we're renting in a relatively high-cost housing area and I had to pick up numerous student loans (with varying interest rates) while finishing my MBA recently.

So, getting rid of debt (especially the high cost debt) and getting into a house are our first priorities. So, even though my financial situation is really quite good, I now only buy RPG stuff that I'm fairly certain I'll use, or I absolutely see as must have. Before that, I'd buy just about anything that looked mildly interesting to me.

And, in order to do so, I've deferred my purchase of an xbox (another entertainment item that gives you a lot of return for a relatively small initial investment), a lot of blood bowl miniatures that I want, other books (novels mostly) and upgrades for my computer.

On the other hand, if we were getting $17k bonuses (like we did the year I hired in), I would pick up the xbox, buy twice as many blood bowl figures and RPG supplements as I do now, buy more RAM (and maybe a few games to go with it) and still pay off my debt and get into my house faster than I am currently planning.

The economy has had a huge impact on my spending of money on even "good bang for buck" entertainment items, including RPGs. If it wasn't for the economy, I can think of at least half a dozen hardbacks that would be on my shelves right as we speak.

 

[MerricB]

Should we hope that D&D will ever be as popular as it was in 1984?

Was its popularity at that stage just a fad?

Cheeers!

 

[MerricB]

As a WAG, I would say that there was a spike in sales of the game when 2nd edition was released, just as there has been when the 'not entirely D&D' system of 3E was released.

MerricB, I don't entirely follow you here...

3E, while not being a favorite for all old-time gamers, still holds true to the spirit of DnD, at least in my opinion.

It does in mine, as well.

However, I do know that there are a significant number of people out there (or do I mean significantly vocal?) that consider it not to be D&D in any shape, manner or form.

I've been playing D&D for 20 years. (I'm not quite 30 at present!)

Cheers!

 

[cptg1481]

Is there any board ettiqute on quoting a quote? I hope not...here goes....

That hurts, Hong...
But maybe it's true enough...

But I roleplayed without nowing it when I was a small child and I played big adventures with my LEGOs or Playmobil. And I think everybody did it once of another...

Maybe us, roleplayers, never grew up from it, a bit Peter-Pan syndrome.

I once got rid of (read threw in an appartment complex dumpster) literally a hundred 1st Edition products (mini's, books and mod's) plus a couple of file boxes of home brew stuff in Fayetteville NC. (circa 1988) in a fit of "a time to put away childish things" moment(damn the ex-wife and getting married at 23). I wish I had all of that stuff back.

I'm back in the game now 3E and think it is the best thing to happen to me in the last 5 years (with the exception of my daughter's birth). Here's to never, never, growing-up.

And thanks to Peter (a poster here) for inviting me to join his game. Sorry for being a thorn in your side at the table dude. Your game was (even though personally frustrating at times to me) a great game I had loads of fun each and every time.

Once a gain here's to never growing up.

Not to be guilty of thread jacking... a prediction...I'm a sucker fro the game and will buy almost anything the WOTC guys and those excellent D20 companies (Green Ronin, Mongoose, Atlas, and others that excape me at the moment) can think of as long as I have the finacial ability to do so.

 

[Zaruthustran]

D&D Model Kits: A model company (Revell?) made plastic dungeon kits with traps, monsters, and adventurers. IIRC, they were scaled too small to be used with 25mm figures.

Wow. Great post, Mearls. I know the company that made the models: Fun Dimensions. My Dad worked for them at the time. And I, like you, got into D&D really early (1st grade--I'm 26 now).

Anyway.

I agree with what the others are saying, in that the future of D&D lies in addressing two main problems:

1. It's hard to learn. Like someone else said, you can't just have random friends over, say "Hey lets play this fun game called D&D" and get down to it. You've got to read books, make characters, read adventures, etc.

2. You buy the core books and you're done. No more $ for Hasbro, no more financial interaction between you and the game's creators.


Problem 1: The game Warhammer Quest addressed problem 1. In that game, your character's stats are on a preprinted card. The board is modular, randomized for each adventure. Encounters are determined by tables. It's limitless. And you can teach it to someone in about 5 minutes.

Alas, WQ can hardly be called "roleplaying". Sure, there are advanced rules for character advancement, but there are zero non-combat/non healing spells. No thief skills. No NPC interaction besides "Do you attack or not?" It's not roleplaying, and thus the future of D&D can not be along WQ's path.

But... D&D could take a cue, maybe by including a basic boxed set with prepainted figs, preprinted characters, and a randomized board. Another thread explored this concept of "D&D Light" in depth.

Problem 2: The core book and you're done thing used to be a big problem, because financial interaction was the only interaction possible. Interaction between customer and creator is important because it keeps the customer involved, keeps the customer playing and recruiting other players/customers. Fortunately, today we have the Internet.

I think WotC could and should do a much better job online. They need to make interactive play, or visiting the site almost a necesity. The Living campaigns are step in the right direction, but could be better implemented with more interaction with regular players and faster decisions at the upper level.


That's where the future lies, in my opinion: ease of use/ease of entry, and improved interaction via the Internet. And, probably, some scheme to get players coming back for more--be that serialized adventures, Living campaigns, better mins, or whatever.

-z

 

[MerricB]

But... D&D could take a cue, maybe by including a basic boxed set with prepainted figs, preprinted characters, and a randomized board. Another thread explored this concept of "D&D Light" in depth.

There is one: "The Adventure Begins". It uses counters instead of figurines, but is attractively priced and quite good... as far as it goes. (The battlemap & tokens it gives you I still use in the occasional session).

But I don't think it sold well.

Cheers!