The Perform skill, WTF?

[Number47]

In my opinion, Perform should just be one skill. The character is assumed to have some form of competency in some related performance to what is required. So they know the concepts of dance, music, stage presence, etc. This would make keeping track of a character easier and certainly doesn't break anything.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In my opinion, Perform should just be one skill.

It is

-Hyp.

 

[hobbes]

In my opinion, Perform should just be one skill. The character is assumed to have some form of competency in some related performance to what is required. So they know the concepts of dance, music, stage presence, etc. This would make keeping track of a character easier and certainly doesn't break anything.

I disagree: I've known too many music majors. Just because a character is a good singer does not make them a good dancer, lute player, etc.

Have you ever seen Johny Depp speak in public? The man is a brilliant performer, but his Perform (acting) gives him NOTHING for Perform (public speaking).

I am pretty sure that each Perform (xxxx) skill is supposed to be a unique skill which requires it's own skill points. There may be some synergy bonuses involved with some closely related skills, but they are each separate.

And the logic behind that is the idea that it the more skill points you throw into a particular performance skill, the better you are at it. It is one thing to have the ability to play the guitar, it is an entirely different thing to be Edward Van Halen.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

I am pretty sure that each Perform (xxxx) skill is supposed to be a unique skill which requires it's own skill points. There may be some synergy bonuses involved with some closely related skills, but they are each separate.

See this is, in my opinion, the way it should have been done and the way they've gone in d20 Modern, but I challenge anyone to show me where it actually says this is how it is done in the rules. As the rules are, you get one Perform skill with one type of perform per rank. It doesn't make sense, and most 3rd-party authors don't use it, but that's how the rules go.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I am pretty sure that each Perform (xxxx) skill is supposed to be a unique skill which requires it's own skill points.

Craft: Craft is actually a number of separate skills. For instance, the character could have the skill Craft (trapmaking). The character's ranks in that skill don't affect any checks the character happens to make for pottery or leatherworking, for example. The character could have several Craft skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill.

Profession: Like Craft, Profession is actually a number of separate skills. The character could have several Profession skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill.

Perform: Possible Perform types include ballad, buffoonery, chant, comedy, dance, drama, drums, epic, flute, harp, juggling, limericks, lute, mandolin, melody, mime, ode, pan pipes, recorder, shalm, storytelling, and trumpet. The character is capable of one form of performance per rank.

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Perform is supposed to be a single skill. There's nothing hazy or unclear or ambiguous about it in the Core Rules. See dcollins' excellent examples from the Monster Manual for how it is supposed to be handled.

If you feel compelled to split it into separate skills, the system does make provisions for House Rules. But the RAW say one type of performance per rank of Perform.

-Hyp.

 

[hobbes]

See this is, in my opinion, the way it should have been done and the way they've gone in d20 Modern, but I challenge anyone to show me where it actually says this is how it is done in the rules. As the rules are, you get one Perform skill with one type of perform per rank. It doesn't make sense, and most 3rd-party authors don't use it, but that's how the rules go.

OK, looking again at the way it's written, I think you're right. I also think that it is stupid to do it that way.

I think it should work how Knowledge (xxxxx) works. Of course I suppose that's what house rules are for, right?

 

[hobbes]

Smurf,

I saw your post just after I posted mine. Looks like we came to the same conclusion, although I must say that I find it to be a terribly lame way to handle it. I mean, what happens when you get around 15 ranks of perform? Does that mean you're just a virtuoso/prodigy in everything you ever try? (Uhhh, let's try Performance (yodeling) this time - I've got the points...)

I suppose it's OK if you are trying to make the Bard class amazing in just generic "Performing", but I think it's terribly unrealistic and makes it too easy to minimize the differences between a storyteller/acrobat/minstrel/etc.

Does anyone else think this is lame, or am I just hopped up on too much Mountain Dew?

 

[Henry]

I also dislike the way it is handled in the original D&D core rules, but I also know that bards as is are given far too few skill points to go spreading it out that far. I agree that it makes no sense to add a type pf performance with every rank - after all, being a better lyre player would not make you a better orator!

But I would like to see a common ground between the two - after all, the bard to me is DEFINED by being a master of many different types of performance! Perhaps bards need to be given a class ability for multiple performance styles, and tie it in to the ranks in Perform, just like the bard's music ability is now.

For regular PC's, I would suggest categories similar to those in d20 modern - after all, there is no need to spread it out to dozens of different categories, or the skill's use is marginalized, compared to others skills such as tumble or speak language, which has more than just courtly application.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

OK, looking again at the way it's written, I think you're right. I also think that it is stupid to do it that way.

I think it should work how Knowledge (xxxxx) works. Of course I suppose that's what house rules are for, right?

The annoying thing for me is that I have to guess which method my publishers believe it is supposed to be used.

PAIN

IN

THE

BUTT

 

[Hypersmurf]

I mean, what happens when you get around 15 ranks of perform? Does that mean you're just a virtuoso/prodigy in everything you ever try? (Uhhh, let's try Performance (yodeling) this time - I've got the points...)

Yes.

I suppose it's OK if you are trying to make the Bard class amazing in just generic "Performing", but I think it's terribly unrealistic and makes it too easy to minimize the differences between a storyteller/acrobat/minstrel/etc.

It's not just Bards, it's anyone who takes the skill...

I don't have a problem with it.

I have a fighter with Perform as a class skill via Cosmopolitan. She considers herself a dancer. Sure, she's just as good at singing and playing the harp etc as she is at dancing... but the female line of her family have been great dancers as far back as anyone can remember, and her deity puts great store by dancing, etc - if someone asks her "What do you do?", she replies "I dance." But if she has to, she can handle drumming or playing for someone else who wants to dance as well...

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One possibility if you want to house-rule it without making it impossible for bards to do more than one thing is to treat it like a Ranger's Favoured Enemies - each time you add a Rank to perform, you choose a new type with a +1 modifier, and each of your other types' modifiers go up by one. It does mean you need to keep them listed in order or with the numbers beside them, though :

Perform (6 ranks)
Dance +6
Ballad +5
Play Drums +4
Whistle +3
Tightrope Origami +2
Make Animal Noises +1

-Hyp.