the power of a good illustration

[Draxo]

That mini just single handedly changed by attitude towards monks in D&D.

*begins tinkering with a Kobold monk character idea*

 

[Klaus]

When you see some of the earlier illustrations of a Chimera, they just don't seem all that scary. Then you take a look at something like this and 'large magical beast' really snaps into focus. You can see people saying 'Attack that? Not for all the gold in the Dwarven Mountains!'

Awesome illustration, even if that is actually a Gargantuan chimera (a Large chimera would be horse-sized, a Huge chimera would be elephant-sized... this is dinosaur-material!).

 

[Delta]

When you see some of the earlier illustrations of a Chimera, they just don't seem all that scary. Then you take a look at something like this and 'large magical beast' really snaps into focus. You can see people saying 'Attack that? Not for all the gold in the Dwarven Mountains!'

Very true. I was running D&D module X9 (I think), and it had this new undead creature, a big floating spirit-skull, that popped up and attacked. My players nixed it in one or two rounds. Then I showed them the full-page illustration in the module, and they said "Holy crap! There's no way we'd have fought that if we knew what it looked like!" (To this day I regret not showing them the illustration first.)


On the subject of Charisma, I have no problem with physical attractiveness being part of the measurement. You may not think many politicians are beautiful, but in actuality they can't look that awful and still get elected (political workers are keenly aware of this -- consider the pains taken to make FDR not look frail, or how bitter Nixon was after pretty-boy JFK showed him up on TV, or how whichever presidential candidate is taller wins the popular vote about 2/3 the time! -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heights_of_U.S._Presidents) Also note that in AD&D Comelines was still closely "linked" to Charisma by way of a specific modifier to the roll.

 

[Jesus_marley]

WRT the picture, sure she's good looking, but there may be other factors that would seriously affect her charisma rating such as:

maybe she is a drooling mouthbreather.

maybe she has an annoying habit of whistling when she breathes through her nose.

maybe she whines incessantly.

perhaps she has breath that would make an Otyugh nauseous.

 

[Klaus]

WRT the picture, sure she's good looking, but there may be other factors that would seriously affect her charisma rating such as:

maybe she is a drooling mouthbreather.

maybe she has an annoying habit of whistling when she breathes through her nose.

maybe she whines incessantly.

perhaps she has breath that would make an Otyugh nauseous.

I think she's just a b**ch.

And not in the "Type O Treasure" way.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

What rules?

D&D:

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

This I mean. Physical attractiveness is part of the package.

Plus, it's actual strength of personality, not other peoples' perception. Sure, maybe it's just my perception, but she doesn't have the expression of someone who's lacking in force of personality.

Otherwise, it makes slightly less sense than linking Strength to the length of a character's hair. (At least their is some mythological basis for that one.)

The RAW states that looks are part of Cha, and no amount of snarky comments will change that.

I know, in fact if you go back and read my original post, I specifically called out the linking of physical attractiveness to CHA was lazy thinking on the part of game designers. The only systems I can think of off the top of my head that don't link them are Shadowrun (3e), and the Vampire/Werewolf family of White Wolf games (which has an Appearance stat). And AD&D, which had Comeliness. My point is that linking CHA to beauty is a dumb idea, not that its not in the book. (For whatever reason, not enough love as a child or something, looking at whether or not CHA and beauty are linked is one of the first things I do when reading a system. Its a pet peeve.)

I disagree on your opinion that it's dumb, and I want to point out that you did ask about the rules. And I did talk about the rules.

It creates the problem of implying that characters get mechanical benefits (bonus spells, extra turn attempts, more lay on hands points) for being prettier. That is to say, if two characters are equally persausive, magnetic and all the other things CHA does, but one is prettier than the other, he will have a higher CHA and get more Sor spells per day. As I say, it works for Zoolander d20. For D&D, not so much.

Except that this is exactly how D&D works out of the books. It's not implied, it's all but spelled-out.

It's explainable, too: Being prettier is good for your confidence. Confidence is good for spell-casting.

By the by, this guy gets a +6 bonus to CHA:

Nobody likes calamari that much.

They do look quite impressive. You don't have to like anyone for them to look good.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It's explainable, too: Being prettier is good for your confidence. Confidence is good for spell-casting.

It's the other one. That having high confidence makes you more physically attractive: you stand taller, you square your shoulders, you just your jaw, you make eye contact, you aren't afraid to show off your good traits.

She may be beautiful, but she's also retreating into a hood -- she's shy, unassuming, retreating, she doesn't want to be seen, doesn't want to be noticed, doesn't want to be judged. Maybe she was the fat kid in her psionics class and never quite got over the taunts of the other students. She doesn't want people to see her, she's afraid of not being "good enough" for them. She won't speak up, and when she does, she stutters and slurs her words. She's not confident. She's beautiful (and the artist caught that), but she can't use it to her advantage.

But, basically, I agree that the incredulity at her being CHA 8 is ridiculous. It's absolutely possible to look like that and be CHA 8. If she was CHA 3, you might have a slightly harder time convincing me.

 

[Sir Elton]

That fits perfectly an idea I had a while ago. I played a character where I used the monk class to represent him as a bare-knuckle fighter, rather than the usual faux oriental martial artist.

I wish they officially rename the monk "Pankratiast" because that's exactly what they are. People who use "ALL-POWER" to defeat their foes. No holds barred: bite, lock, dislocate, naked.

 

[Sir Elton]

I think she's just a b**ch.

And not in the "Type O Treasure" way.

Someone manipulated that picture to expose her breasts. I was somewhat suprised (even though I wish the majority of women would expose their breasts on a regular basis, since it isn't a sexual thing to feed babies) mostly because who would want to hang their breasts on leather belts?

 

[I'm A Banana]

It's huge, but I've always loved this pic (from jasonchanart.com)

It's made me believe that "anime influence" is so often kick ass.