D&D 4E The problem I've having with 4e.

[Nebulous]

Whats even more strange is that the enemy can continue to attack you while you are unconscious and you still have a 5% chance is turn to stand up and start regenerating by humming "I of the Tiger" or whatever. What did the enemy do the whole time he attacked you while you were unconscious? Did he always miss a unmoving target?

Not exactly. If the enemy hits you and reduces you to your "bloodied" number, you're dead. You had better hope you recuperate before someone plants a sword in your gut. I can see this as a common tactic in the game, DM's having enemies continue jabbing PC's after they're down.

 

[Steely Dan]

Link?

I'm at work and can’t seem to find it, but it was on the Ground Rules sheet – I'm sure one our lovely, fellow Enworlders will be kind enough to hook you up.

 

[Cabled]

What does the ego-tripping; self-made English Mythology of one man have to do with the rules of the 4th edition Dungeons & Dragons game?

Much like the efforts of a man named Gygax who came along much later, it arrived early in its niche and influenced a genre, and many lovers of that genre, greatly. That you dislike it doesn't remove or discredit the impact.

 

[Steely Dan]

That you dislike it doesn't remove or discredit the impact.

Ah, another person who jumps the gun before reading what else someone posted on a topic – bravo.

I am a HUGE Tolkien fan, as you would know if you didn't get your panties in a bunch and lash out with a post because I didn't blow smoke up Tolkien's ass, but I don't need his work crapping all over my D&D sessions unless I am running a Middle-Earth campaign (something I would like to do one day).

Just like I don't have warforged running through the hills of Athas etc.

 

[Wormwood]

Ah, another person who jumps the gun before reading what else someone posted on a topic – bravo.

Your subsequent statements have clarified your position (one I agree with, btw), but in all fairness your initial post was a wee bit on the inflammatory side.

 

[Steely Dan]

Your subsequent statements have clarified your position (one I agree with, btw), but in all fairness your initial post was a wee bit on the inflammatory side.

Yeah, as usual tone and inflection often get mutilated in text.

Sorry, everyone, I was not insulting Tolkien's genius, I mean, I love the guy, and yes he was an ego-tripper, who else decides their country of birth doesn't have a worthy enough mythology so goes about making their own, that take balls, and I love it!

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Considering that you were struck down by an enemy with a lethal spell or (natural) weapon and literally struggled with death, 25% HP are quite good in my opinion.
Whats even more strange is that the enemy can continue to attack you while you are unconscious and you still have a 5% chance is turn to stand up and start regenerating by humming "I of the Tiger" or whatever. What did the enemy do the whole time he attacked you while you were unconscious? Did he always miss a unmoving target?

That's the thing...as long as they are kept as an abstraction then all that happened was a bunch of game mechanics.

Every see a movie where the hero gets shot? Everyone gasps, the woman who loves him starts crying. It's hopeless now, he's lying there bleeding and not moving. The woman runs over and holds him and yells "No!!"...but he doesn't move. The bad guy laughs, gloats for a while, and then turns to shoot his friend as well. Then suddenly, from behind him the hero who was shot appears and tackles him from behind. He was apparently shot in the shoulder and it hasn't affected him that much other than he went down and looked like he was dead for a while to provide an appropriate moment of tension in the story.

This is exactly how I picture it working in 4e. Sometimes you go down and you die. However, if you are lucky, you get up and it turns out you weren't hurt that bad after all. If one of your friends runs over to you says "You can't die on me...not now!" then it ALSO turns out it wasn't so bad after all.

The idea is to keep the game mechanics completely separate from the narrative. The PLAYER knows that he had already failed 2 death saved and managed to roll a natural 20 which restored him to 25% of his health. However, according to the narrative, the character was never in any danger of dying since he didn't receive a lethal wound. This allows the game rules to retroactively change the narrative. Based on whether the third death save was a natural 20 or was a failure, that determines how nasty the hit the character took 3 rounds ago.

 

[Derren]

Not exactly. If the enemy hits you and reduces you to your "bloodied" number, you're dead. You had better hope you recuperate before someone plants a sword in your gut. I can see this as a common tactic in the game, DM's having enemies continue jabbing PC's after they're down.

I was not talking about the bloodied condition.
Imagine this situation, the enemy drops a PC below 0 HP. After that he attacks the unconscious PC two more time, reducing his HP close to the death threshold. On the third turn the PC rolls a 20 (old system?), instantly gets back to 25%HP, stand up and uses his second wind and is now at 50%HP. After that he kills the enemy and trades in two more surges to be at 100%. How do you explain that? What did the enemy do those two rounds where he attacked you? He can't miss a unmoving body so badly that you the PC can simply stand up again.
Sure, this was also a problem in 3E when the enemy choose not to CdG, but at lest that was an option. In 4E you apparently can only do max damage.

Or to use Oakhearts example, the BBEG shoots the hero, then he shoots its "corpse" two times and after that the hero stands up again, kills the BBEG and then walks away as if nothing happened to him.

If WotC really dropped the 20 = 25% HP thing it would make the HP system much more believable.

 

[Nebulous]

If WotC really dropped the 20 = 25% HP thing it would make the HP system much more believable.

I don't much like that either. Can anyone confirm that it was removed?

 

[FireLance]

If WotC really dropped the 20 = 25% HP thing it would make the HP system much more believable.

EDIT: According to this post, you stabilize on a natural 20, and if someone succeeds at a Heal check on you, you can use a healing surge if you have not yet used your second wind in the encounter.