D&D 5E The problem with 5e

[Don Durito]

I don't disagree, it's just noteworthy because all the other variant rules surrounding rest &recovery tend to be so bad

It's the shift from vancian(sp?) prepared each slot to prepared use any unused slot. Back then the cleric would prepare x cure light wounds Y cure moderate wounds etc in addition to the cool spells they want to use doing more than puttin magic bandaids on the party while now everyone who can & does prepare cure wounds has every unused spellslot available for either cure wounds or a spell that lets them do something cool without the old worry about preparing too many cure spells that will go unused & not enough do cool things spells so there is no need to do anything more than charge in & just recover everything before reaching a point where you might feel tight on spell slots.

That happened 20 years ago now.

The consequence of this has been the cleric has moved from it's traditional role into basically another wizard, rather then a secondary Fighter that offered support and healing.

It did mean in AD&D that you might need to retreat and spend an extra day or two preparing healing spells and them casting before going back into danger but that's little different in effect then changing the length of the long rest in 5e.

The difference is the lack of things in 5E that bypass hit points altogether.

 

[Umbran]

...but all traces of injury can heal naturally over the course of an hour". Neither of which is reasonable.

...but all MECHANICAL traces of injury can heal over...

But then, the only mechanical traces of injury were in the number of hit points, as D&D does not have death-spiral mechanics.

How you narrate the injury, and its traces, are another matter.

 

[tetrasodium]

That happened 20 years ago now.

The consequence of this has been the cleric has moved from it's traditional role into basically another wizard, rather then a secondary Fighter that offered support and healing.

It did mean in AD&D that you might need to retreat and spend an extra day or two preparing healing spells and them casting before going back into danger but that's little different in effect then changing the length of the long rest in 5e.

The difference is the lack of things in 5E that bypass hit points altogether.

20 years ago the cleric could do it over 2 rests or by doing things like "going back to town" to rest it off in an inn or something but doing it in the wild meant that the cleric would be feeling very hamstrung & wand another rest to have a normal spell list without a bunch of spent slots . Resting through the night didn't recover all hp for everyone so any random or not so random encounter over those two days could result in healing up bob but having 2-3 other PCs hurt a little (or a lot) depending on how dangerous the area was. The lack of things targeting stuff other than just hp is also a contributing factor yes

20 years ago the cleric could burn any unspent cure spells before recovering them yes, but they couldn't burn the slots dedicated to spells like* spirit guardians shield of faith remove curse death ward & so on to heal someone.

.* I can't remember all the go to non-healing spells for a cleric that far back so threw in some 5e examples

 

[cmad1977]

I mean... if you can’t figure out hit points... despite your he clear description of what they represent... other games are available.

 

[Don Durito]

20 years ago the cleric could do it over 2 rests or by doing things like "going back to town" to rest it off in an inn or something but doing it in the wild meant that the cleric would be feeling very hamstrung & wand another rest to have a normal spell list without a bunch of spent slots . Resting through the night didn't recover all hp for everyone so any random or not so random encounter over those two days could result in healing up bob but having 2-3 other PCs hurt a little (or a lot) depending on how dangerous the area was. The lack of things targeting stuff other than just hp is also a contributing factor yes

20 years ago the cleric could burn any unspent cure spells before recovering them yes, but they couldn't burn the slots dedicated to spells like* spirit guardians shield of faith remove curse death ward & so on to heal someone.

.* I can't remember all the go to non-healing spells for a cleric that far back so threw in some 5e examples

Yes. I said that. But you can achieve the same result in 5E without the bookkeeping by making long rests 36 hours*.

This is the first edition to explicitly call out that this is a dial that can be adjusted.


*And you can no longer stock up on wands of cure light wounds.

 

[Oofta]

If you can't criticize, then you can't optimize. This rule absurdity is an obvious mistake, and players deserve for it to be fixed. Ignoring the problem is not a solution.

I understand that it's an issue for you. It's never been anything other than a quick side conversation followed by a shrug (at most) for anyone I've played with in person.

If you have a suggested homebrew solution, feel free to post. If you're just complaining about something you personally don't like I'm free to say that it doesn't bother me or anyone I know and explain why.

 

[nevin]

Yes. I said that. But you can achieve the same result in 5E without the bookkeeping by making long rests 36 hours*.

This is the first edition to explicitly call out that this is a dial that can be adjusted.


*And you can no longer stuck up on wands of cure light wounds.

Or you can houserule whatever you want and play the way you like.

 

[nevin]

I understand that it's an issue for you. It's never been anything other than a quick side conversation followed by a shrug (at most) for anyone I've played with in person.

If you have a suggested homebrew solution, feel free to post. If you're just complaining about something you personally don't like I'm free to say that it doesn't bother me or anyone I know and explain why.

Honestly optimization is what ruins role playing games. For some people it overtakes everything else, and then your playing with Sheldon who's explaining to you how everything should be configured and in what order to do everything.

 

[Don Durito]

Or you can houserule whatever you want and play the way you like.

Changing the length of rests is explicitly called out in the DMG.

It's like complaining that a computer game is too easy when you insist on playing it on medium difficulty rather than ramping up to hard.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

But then, the only mechanical traces of injury were in the number of hit points, as D&D does not have death-spiral mechanics.

Yes, hit point damage is the only mechanic to track injury. That's why it's important that they do a good job of it. Hit Point mechanics that don't track injury would be entirely pointless.