The problem with fighting drow

Long reply incoming.

The advancing party cannot see the drow, for the drow have Piwalfis that defeat normal sight and even infravision (darkvision.) Furthermore, the drow can Hide In Shadows as a racial trait.

Piwafi give a 75% chance to hide in shadows, which is then modified by any armor penality the drow would have - likely to be drow chain, which I believe has a -15% hide in shadows adjustment. I may be wrong, but I am positive there -is- a penality. Note hiding in shadows is equally effective against normal, and infravision .. no matter who is doing it. The thief scout mentioned later would be just as invisible to the drow.. possibly more so, if they had a high skill.

Drow do not have Hide in Shadows as a racial trait, any more so than normal elves, etc do.


The advancing party cannot hear the drow, for the drow wear their own version of Boots of Elvenkind, and are absolutely silent when they move (even in their metallic armor and with metal weapons.)

Drow boots give a 75% chance to move silently, again modified by armor (a much smaller adjustment than hide in shadows, above, I think only -5%). While quite sneaky, 70% silent isn't total. They'd still have to roll, and that party scout would still get their Detect Noise chance against them.

The party is carrying torches, which makes them easy for the drow to see.
Or perhaps the party walking in the dark, using infravision. The drow have infravision (to 120 feet, farther than the party's) so the drow see the party.
Or perhaps the party threw invisibility on themselves. The drow magic resistance defeated that, and the drow see the party.


A party using light sources, or infravision would be spotted easily by the drow's supperior dark sight, granted. If they were invisible, however the drow do not see them unless they have Detect Invisibility up. Infravision does not detect invisibility. Detect Magic does not detect invisibility. You do not get a MR check against an invisibility spell unless someone is casting it on you, and you want to resist it. Your magic resistance does not affect me being invisible in any way.

The drow heard the party coming for the last 20 minutes.
Even if the party was magically silenced, the drow heard them, for the drow magic resistance (spell resistance) of 75% defeated the Silence spells cast by the party clerics.


See above statement about invisibility. If they wern't magically silenced, they probably made enough sound to alert the drow patrol well in advance (large group of people, metalic armor, tight confines, echo, etc). If they were magically silenced, the drow do not hear them coming. You only get a magic resistance check (or a saving throw for that matter) if someone casts a silence spell directly on you. If they cast it on themselves.. no MR. If they cast it on a rock and throw the rock at you.. no MR.

The party mage could have Stoneskinned the party.
However, the mage does not know exactly when to throw the Stoneskin spells (or other spells of this sort), for the party has a long journey and opponents could be anywhere along the way.
And perhaps the party mage saved the Stoneskins for himself (and, thus, has one up currently.) Mages do do such things.
The point being, the party does not have Stoneskin spells up currently.


2e Stoneskin lasts until it is used up. It could be up for months at a time, if the recipient were careful. However, the material component per casting of stoneskin is a killer.. 1,000gp worth of diamond dust. This cost is what usually keeps it from being tossed about willy-nilly. If the party mage has the spell, it's likely to be up on themselves only. Possibly on the other caster types, if they party has funds to spare. There is nothing stopping the party from having Stoneskin spells up.

The party thief is on point, but she cannot see or hear the drow.
Her detect magic was foiled by the drow's Hide in Shadows abilities (the drow expect this kind of scanning.)
Her detect poison and find traps locate nothing.
Her detect life is foiled by the Hide in Shadows as was her detect magic.
Her clairaudience might have worked, but a throw of the dice for the entire drow group (for magic resistance) failed her.


Hide in Shadows (the skill, or the ability granted by elven/drow cloaks) does not defeat magical scanning of any kind. If you are hiding and have magical items, Detect Magic can spot them. Detect Poison would pick up the buckets of sleep poison most drow carry on them, Detect Life would point out that they're living. A find traps check would only detect a trap (deadfall, rune, pit, tripwire, etc) but wouldn't spot an ambush. Clairaudience allows you to listen to things at range, and if the drow all made their (estimated above) 70% move silently checks, the caster wouldn't hear anything. The drow again do not get to MR the spell, as it is not affecting them directly.

True Seeing would have spotted the drow, but True Seeing has a very limited duration, and neither of the party clerics has it up.

True on both accounts. True Seeing is a very situational spell.

Out of a darkness inpenetrable to the thief comes 10 bolts, fired from 5 hand crossbows by hands that move with lightning speed.
The thief goes down, succumbing to the sleep poison in the bolts.


I don't have a 2e PHB handy at the moment, but if the RoF for hand crossbows is 2/1, then yeah.. 10 bolts. There would be a normal supprise check, however.. there's a good chance a trained thief may win, in which case they should probably fall back to the party asap. Drow sleep poison is powerful (-4 penality to save against it) but does not knock someone out instantly. If you fail your save you suffer a 4pt penality to AC until the next round .. then you pass out. Plenty of time to alert your party of the ambush you just walked into.

In 2nd edition, initiative would now be rolled.
The extremely fast drow gain initiative, and they attack again.
Expecting a volley of Continual Light stones and blasts from spells, not to mention charging fighters, the drow move fast to counteract all of these.
A fireball detonates behind the party. It's flames move up and down the tunnel, enveloping the entire party but not the drow. This causes damage and wrecks any spellcasting on the party's part.


Drow have no more bonus to initiative than any other reasonably dexterous race (elves and halflings). If the drow move first and toss off a fireball to behind the party, yes blast channeling will have the PCs taking 5d6 (save for half) fire damage. A party of 12th level adventurers isn't terribly threatened by 30/15 max dmg. If all 5 drow cast fireballs however, that's a different story. Note - if the drow do go first, and they chuck fireballs on the group -before- the group's initiative comes up, this will not stop the party's spellcasters at all. 2e spells had a casting time, and if you were took damage in the time between you started casting (your initiave) and finished the spell (your initiative + casting time) THEN is it ruined. It would be more prudent on the drow's part to have one of their members delay an action until they see the party members start to cast a spell, and then blast them with a fireball.


A web spell is placed between the drow and the party, to block any charges.
4 more poisoned bolts are fired from two of the drow, this time at one of the clerics, downing him.
The drow - knowing their darkness spells won't stop a flood of Continual Light stones - simply retreat down the tunnel out of the target area (and yes, the drow can cast spells and fire missiles, as they retreat.)


The web will stop their bolts from going thru. Also see above statement about sleep poison not being instant. Clerics also have -really- good poison saves. A single torch or other source of fire will burn the web away in a round or two.

One of the fighters has a Ring of Free Action and passes through the Web.
The drow anticipated this possibility, and one of them now fires her Wand of Viscid Globs.
The fighter is ensnared in the Glob, and halted.


Ring of Free Action would have the Viscid Glob slide off the fighter, but could still glom anyone walking thru the area where it fell. A glob remains active (sticky) for 10 rounds after it was fired, and alcohol disolves it handily - the example given is a belt-flask of wine is enough to disolve two globbed areas.

Note that the drow are trying to take the party alive.
Otherwise, these five female drow would have fired three Fireballs and two Frostballs on their surprise attack, then fired three more Fireballs and two more Frostballs from readied scrolls.


What's a frostball? A cold-type fireball, I'm guessing - yes? Also, if they're readying scrolls (a sound tactic, if they're hit-and-running), they will have to unready their hand crossbows, weapons, etc. Also, as an above poster mentioned - any fire/frost balls cast while that web is still up would detonate when they hit the web.

The mage and one of the clerics were spellcasting, but their spells were ruined by the Fireball.
The other cleric threw a number of Continual Light stones, now illuminating brightly an area of the tunnel between the drow and the party (including the downed thief, the web, and the entrapped fighter in it.)
The last fighter and the monk stopped their charges due to the Web blocking the way.


The light stones are a good idea, but better used in the hands of someone who is proficient with slings (better range, placement, and hey.. you could do 1d4 dmg with 'em). As mentioned, the party's spells are not ruined unless the fireballer held their casting until the pcs started their own spells. The presence of stong light hampers drow concentration, and lose the ability to cast any spell, or use spell-like abilities. Noble drow (are these nobles on patrol?) must make a saving throw vs spell to cast, and cannot use a spell and a spell-like ability in tandem. As above, the drow MR does not apply.

The drow and the party throw initiative, and the drow win again.
The drow know they cannot douse all the Continual Light stones, nor can they see through the light to make out the party.
They know the party cannot see them.
They also know the mage and the clerics may fire spells blindly, hoping to hit them in the concealing darkness.
They fire first.


The drow only win init if they are lucky. See above. Once that web is gone, there's nothing stopping the party from rushing the now hampered drow. And if there are lightstones in play, the party can probably see the drow just fine. Also if the drow are still in the light radius, they arn't casting anything.

They fire three Fireballs and two Frostballs, placing the center of the explosions far behind the visible Web.
The blasts hit all of the party except the fighter ensnared on the drow side of the Web and the thief, unconscious on the floor on the drow side of the Web.
The unconscious cleric is caught in all five blasts and killed. The mage, with few hit points, is also killed. The monk is able to dodge enough of the explosions that she survives. The standing fighter, unable to get through the Web or free her companion caught in it, easily survives the blasts.
The standing cleric survives the blasts, but his spellcasting is ruined.


Again, if they're in the light, they cannot cast. Also, a 5th level wizard has one 3rd level spell per day, and a fireball was already possibly cast to ruin party casting. See above statements about: casting thru webs (if it hadn't burnt away yet), drow casting in light, delay on sleep poison.

One of the drow girls calls out in Common for the party to surrender.
The standing cleric, fighter, and monk tell the drow where to go.


heh heh.

Initiative is rolled, and the drow win again.
The drow are very good at pinpointing enemies by sound, and the standing party members foolishly opened their mouths.
One of the drow Dispels the Web.
Then 4 Viscid Globs are fired at the 3 standing party members (the standing fighter, the monk, and the standing cleric.)


They're dark elves, not bats. They cannot echolocate. Again, their luck with initiative holds true, but *shrug*. No, they can't cast dispell.. even less so if they just tossed off fire/frost balls last round. They're out of 3rd level spells, unless they're packing a whole lot of scrolls. The Viscid Globs are fine, assuming they're all packing 25,000gp wands each. Alcohol can negate the glue if someone makes their save (most likely to be the monk). Light does not hinder the drow ability to use wands.

The cleric is caught and held in the Globs. The monk and standing fighter charge.

Normally a charge would bring the monk and the fighter into combat.
Indeed, they reach the drow.
Then, unable to see or hear the drow, they run right past them (even though they can guess where they would be, approximately.)
For they had to run through the bright light of the area of the Continual Light stone, and then into the darkness beyond, where the drow were.


Light has this wacky tendancy to radiate, instead of just ending in a curtain of inpenetratable blackness. This also assumes the party members arn't carrying additional light sourced with them as they charge. The drow cloaks and boots do not help at this point because of previous actions taken that broke hide. The party could also pelt the drow with missle fire once the web is down to make them charge or retreat.

The drow oblige this, then strike from the rear with poisoned swords and knives in both hands, attacking 10 times, 5 attacks on each person.
These attacks hit (the drow weapons are heavily enchanted), and the sleep poison takes effect.


The position of the drow is debatable, as was just mentioned. Yup, drow are highly ambidexterous, but not perfectly so. So they're dual wielding with a smallish penality, offset somewhat by the enchantments on their weapons. As patrol members their equipment is likely to have a +1 - +2 enchantment. The +5 gear is for people like First House nobles, and noble guards, not patrol members.

One or two attacks may hit. The THAC0 of a 5th level fighter, duel wielding with minor magical weapons vs the Ac of a 12th level, properly equipped fighter and monk doesn't really go that far. If they do hit, the sleep poison is not instantaneous.

The monk and the fighter go down, fast asleep.

At this point, a Flame Strike erupts, cast by the stuck cleric.
The cleric was guessing where the drow would be, and the cries of the monk and fighter (the drow made no sound as they attacked hand to hand) tipped him off.
The Flame Strike catches two of the drow. One of them fails magic resistance, and burns to death. The other one is unscathed.
The unfortunate monk is caught in the Flame Strike also, and is killed.


Poor choice of spell by the cleric. The drow make plenty of sound as they attack in hand to hand, same as everyone else. If the cleric did choose to Flame Strike the melee (did I mention it's a bad idea?), and the drow were in the AoE, then yes, their MR would take effect to try and save them from the damage.

The sudden, and this time unexpected, light dazzles the drow.
They retreat out of range of the cleric's spells, taking several semi-blind shots from the bow of the stuck fighter first.
Once they have recovered, they charge (squinting hard as they pass through the area of the Continual Light stones.)


If the fighter were stuck, he could neither ready, nor fire a bow. Also, they would have to look out for those globs if they were not negated, as they're likely to have some rounds of stickyness to them. A bit hard to maneuver around if you're light-blind at the time.

The drow girls fire their bolts repeatedly, making pincushion out of both stuck characters, felling them with the sleep poison.

The irritated drow then cast Animate Dead on their slain comrade, and also upon the slain monk and slain cleric.
The rest of the party is stripped, trussed up, and the mage has her fingers and tongue removed (unfortunately, her Contingency doesn't cover this, and she isn't teleported away to safety.) The still living cleric suffers a similar fate, as does the monk.
The drow have a Ring of Regeneration to fix this, later on, should they desire to fix their work.


The animate dead on the fallen is a good idea, as is cutting the tongue out of a captured caster if you know you can restore it later. You'd have to be careful that they didn't go into shock, or drown in their own blood (cut tongues bleed a whole lot).

The party is taken away.
Soon, they will give pleasure to the drow.
Their agonized screams will be most satisfying, as their items are studied and claimed for later use against other adventurers foolish enough to come into the Underdark.
Eventually, most of the adventurers will be sacrificed to Lolth.
Two of them will be kept as personal slaves of two of the drow, for the amusement of these girls.

Such is the fate of those who dare to challenge the supremacy of the drow.


There are a number of holes in your scenario.
Some pretty big, some not so big.
By and large the drow didn't use their cleric spells, other than to animate the dead at the end.
In another post you mentioned that drow can read thoughts. This is only available to exceptional priests and priestesses and works on other drow only. Also note - the ESP ability does NOT give you the power to 'scan for thoughts' like mental radar.

I think you heavily overestimate the abilities of the drow. Yes, indiviually they can be powerful, and they come from a very dangerous, and competative society, but they're not super heroes.

~ all information on drow in my response was taken from the Drow of the Underdark book.
 

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You know what.. upon looking at your responses to other posters in this thread.... nevermind.


If you want to make the drow out to be an invincible, unstopable super-race then by all means, knock yourself out. Many.. many of your assumptions are fearfully incorrect, I'm sorry to say. While dark elves can be dangerous, they are by no mean der ubermensch - they do not all have dex scores of 17-20. Not every female has cleric levels, etc,


Thank you. Have a nice day.
 

A comment

I admit, I am surprised by the responses to my posts, so far.

I'm not complaining, but I AM surprised.

Please understand ... in my gaming career, I have seen adventuring party after adventuring party slaughtered by the drow.
My characters have sometime had the misfortune to be caught in these slaughters.

As a DM, I have yet to slaughter a party with the drow, but I have witnessed the fate of other parties under other DMs.

Sometimes, the drow won because the party was unprepared for battle in the Underdark.
Sometimes, I would daresay, the drow won because the party simply wasn't prepared properly at all.
Sometimes the drow won because the party was overconfident.

However, the drow DID win, time and again.

The players I knew, came to fear the drow very greatly, and expeditions into the Underdark were undertaken only by the strongest parties, brimming with magical items, paranoid about every nook and cranny they came upon, creeping down the tunnels one foot at a time.
And still the drow inflicted fatalities.

As for Mithril Hall versus Menzoberranzan, I could well understand many people disagreeing with me.
But I am surprised everyone seems to disagree - it is so clearly obvious, at least to me, just how overwhelmingly superior the drow were, in terms of fighting prowess.

Now yes, you can point to the nature of the drow as they are portrayed by Salvatore, and you have a legitimate point - Salvatore's interpretation makes the drow so disunited, so disorganized, that their military capability is compromised.
However, I am not referring to Salvatore's interpretation - I am referring to what would have happened in our campaign.

In our campaign, the drow would have behaved as religion fanatics, would have stood and fought (to the death), would have worked closely as a team, and would have followed the orders of Matron Baenre as if ... she ... were a Goddess, and her commanders her Proxies.
Such is the nature of drow in our campaign. Only AFTER the fall of Mithril Hall would the drow have fallen apart again, fallen into fighting amongst themselves for the spoils, fallen back into their chaotic ways.

Furthermore, in our campaign the drow would have summoned large Outsider forces to aid them.
In particular, they would have summoned several dozen yochlols (and their front line fighters would have gotten well out of the way when these monsters came charging up against the dwarves.)
The Academy would have summoned the lower-planar Outsiders (as they did when a Noble House was to be destroyed) and these would have descended upon the dwarves en mass.
Also, the drow would have created a LARGE army of undead, including a sizeable force of high Hit Dice undead, which would have been sent into Mithril Hall to do what damage it could before being annihilated.

In our campaign, Mithril Hall would have been swept away in a sea of drow magic, bolts, and blades.

But ...

In our campaign, Alustriel would have brought the full might of Silverymoon and probably several other cities to bear against the drow.
The threat of the drow would have united Citadel Fellbar, Citadel Adbar, Sundabar, Everlund, Deadsnows, and Nesme.
All of these would have sent major forces.

It is likely a large force from Waterdeep, and a supplementary force from the Lord's Alliance, would also have arrived.
With them would have come the Seven Sisters, Elminster, and Khelben.

It is even possible Cormyr might have sent a contingent to give aid, because of the threat the drow represented to trade, and to gain trading privileges (through goodwill) in these northern lands.

Blindenstone would have sent most, if not all, of it's force to the battle.

In any case, in our campaign the Host of Menzoberranzan would have faced a colossal foe, one capable of giving them a real fight - with a 50/50 chance of holding Mithril Hall against the invaders.

This is what would have happened in our campaign.
EVERYONE in our campaign (all the players) would have very quickly realized the unaided dwarves of Clan Battlehammer could not withstand the might of Menzoberranzan.
This would not even have been debated - not even a short debate.
Everyone would have very quickly said: the dwarves will be annihilated, and then god knows what the drow will do next. Let's stop them.

So yeah, I am very surprised at the responses here. They run counter to all my experiences, and my observations of players dealing with a drow threat.

Of course, each to their own, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
And I'm sure that things might have changed in 3rd edition, also.

But, at least in our campaign, and in my gaming history, the drow were a terror, both to my characters and to the characters of every player I knew.

So, I am very surprised at the comments here.

Edena_of_Neith
 

The problem is your own and it starts with the very first words you typed in your topic. I mean the title of course.

An accurate title would have been "The problem with fight MY drow."

For your drow bear no resemblance to the Drow as I have seen them anywhere else. Your Drow are elites who are all LE and so well organized they make the Devils themselves envious. Your Drow fight in a selfless manner willing to sacrifice for the greater evil in a way that makes the most heroic good jealous.

Your Drow are an abomination and to argue how god awful cool they are under the guise of a discussion about the accepted Drow the rest of us know is plain dishonest and at this point boring.
 

Edena,

Just a question - what are the dwarves like in your campaign? Because the dwarves in my campaign would've simply collapsed Mithril Hall - all of it - on their white haired heads.

Just goes to show, it all depends on who's campaign the attack takes place in...
 

Edena I'm guessing that you've had either one DM or several that have made the drow their own personal PC killing machines and that they have nothing to do with "canon" (as per the book) drow. If you wish to correct this, simply read the description of the drow and come to your own conclusions and don't use your previous gaming experience as a point of reference.
 

I think Drow should be allowed to fight in a fairly organized fashion... otherwise the cave fishers and such would have eaten the whole race a long time ago. They might bicker over the PC's possessions after they win, but during the fight it's all business. Then again, most PC groups I run games for are pretty organized too!

I think the fight you described was a really dumb group of level 12 characters. Dragon Mountain kobolds could have wiped them out as easily as any group of Drow you can think of. Even then, everything had to go right for the Drow for them to win, and everything did.

That fighter could have just as well had a Girdle of Giant Strength and a Potion of Speed to go with his Ring of Free Action (if he played the Giants modules, he might have Girdle, Gauntlets, and Hammer of Thunderbolts!). Using the webs as cover, he drinks the potion. Next round, he walks through webs, laughs at those Viscid Globs that his Ring negates too, and kills about 1 Drow per round.

My line of supposition about the fighter is a little far-fetched, but IMO less so than your supposition about the Drow.
 

Squire James said:
I think Drow should be allowed to fight in a fairly organized fashion... otherwise the cave fishers and such would have eaten the whole race a long time ago. They might bicker over the PC's possessions after they win, but during the fight it's all business. Then again, most PC groups I run games for are pretty organized too!
I tend to agree. But then, I tend to think even CE doesn't need to equal insane or stupid. Edena's is an extreme example for the Drow, something that wouldn't work under 3E rules. At the same time the whole "Drow are pushovers." gets boring at times. When I ever use the drow, they'll at least be viciously nasty, though beatable.
 

Originally posted by DocMoriartty
The problem is your own and it starts with the very first words you typed in your topic. I mean the title of course.

An accurate title would have been "The problem with fight MY drow."

For your drow bear no resemblance to the Drow as I have seen them anywhere else. Your Drow are elites who are all LE and so well organized they make the Devils themselves envious. Your Drow fight in a selfless manner willing to sacrifice for the greater evil in a way that makes the most heroic good jealous.

*Emphasis mine.

LOL! I'm sorry, it was too funny to pass up.
It seems to me that Edena's version of the drow (or the campaigns that feature these fearsome drows) seem to empower the drow without giving similar empower to the other prominent races.

Salvatore IMO, nicely balanced the drow and dwarf, pitting drow's simingly overwhelming firepower with the cunning of the masters of the tunnel warfare. And make no mistakes, it is the dwarf that is the master in the tunnels, regardless of drow cunning with traps and poison (the dwarves were simply outnumbered).

IIRC, many if not most of the drow wizards were allocated to the battles ouside of Mithral Hall (though I'm sure a fair number were inside the walls as well) to maximize the wizards ability to decimate armies in open space (in terms of kill ratio, an MU is more efficient in open space than in tunnels). So, it was not as if Mezoberranzan didn't bring its share of MUs and put them to good use. And I'm sure it wasn't mostly Matron Baenre herself that formulated these strategical deployment and tactics. She has her Weaponsmasters from her and other Houses, effective generals all (though somewhat specialist in House warfare and skirmish level of battle), advising her in military details. So, I don't think it was the dumbness on her part (as a miliatry leader anyways) that let the forces of good prevail.

In matters of summoning powerful outsiders, IMHO, I don't think Lolth would dare allocate too many of her hellish servants in fear of drawing attention of the Dwarven pantheon and maybe the Seldarine (elivish counterpart) as well. It is my personal belief that it wasn't just pure luck and circumstance that brought Wulfgar and Aegis Fang (an almost artifact level weapon crafted by Brunor Battlehammer with Dumathoin's sigil inscribed on it) to bear on the Yochlol. It may have been Dumathoin's (Dwarven god of caves and secrets) divine will and answer that forced the fates into the destruction of a creature of Lolth by a dwarven weapon. The Dwarven gods watch over their children if not directly then through proxies and machination of fate.

I think overall the drow had a good chance to take over Mithral Hall, if not for the intervention of the sister cities and the unforseen effects of the sun.
 

POSTED

The problem is your own and it starts with the very first words you typed in your topic. I mean the title of course.
An accurate title would have been "The problem with fight MY drow."
For your drow bear no resemblance to the Drow as I have seen them anywhere else. Your Drow are elites who are all LE and so well organized they make the Devils themselves envious. Your Drow fight in a selfless manner willing to sacrifice for the greater evil in a way that makes the most heroic good jealous.
Your Drow are an abomination and to argue how god awful cool they are under the guise of a discussion about the accepted Drow the rest of us know is plain dishonest and at this point boring.

ANSWER

No, no, no, this isn't a Flame War.
And I am being misunderstood here.

It's not really my problem.
It really WAS the problem of my friends and acquaintances who I once knew.
They are the ones who had their characters slaughtered. They are the ones, for the most part, who had PCs nailed by the drow.

It isn't personal to me. It's something I've witnessed all through my gaming career.

And unfortunately, the drow we faced were not elites.
At that time, ALL the drow were classed, and you never encountered one below 2nd level, and rarely below 5th. And they all were multiclassed.
They all had magical arms and armor.
And they ALL had magic resistance, special innate magical abilities, the ability to move unseen, and the ability to move silently.

The AVERAGE drow was a walking death machine, bristling with Wands of Viscid Globs, poisoned bolts and blades, assorted death magic, and clerical/wizardry spells of the most fiendish sort.

Nobody just walked into 5 0 level (non-classed) drow.
The typical, run-of-the-mill drow (the mundane, weak types) were 5th level as fighter/clerics, or fighter/mages, or cleric/mages, or thief/any-of-the-others, or triple classed.

They were always led by a higher level type, who invariably had some sort of powerful wand, staff, rod, or wondrous item (they called them Miscellaneous items then.)
This higher level type was their equivalent of a 3rd to 5th level leader - but THEIR leader was 9th to 12th level, in each class.

And, they had poison, and they used it, without mercy. (Poison was a real big thing, in 2nd edition D&D, and the average character couldn't use it, because it was such a potent, game-breaking weapon.)

I merely state what the DMs I played under, and the DMs I observed, would have done with the drow - I state how those DMs (all several dozen of them) would have interpreted and run the drow.

I do ... not ... state the drow are cool.
I never played a drow PC for many years after seeing them come into print. They were not an attractive race to play.
I have played only three drow in my gaming career. They are difficult to play, and a drow PC has a particularly hard time surviving.

Are they particularly dangerous foes? Yes, they are.
In our campaign, drow are one of the supreme powers of the Underdark.
In our campaign, the drow COULD come to the surface and crush humankind and demihumankind.
They could ... but they do not do so.

Even as per the concept of Gary Gygax, the drow could conquer the surface world, but they are no longer interested in doing so.
And their chaotic nature prevents them from forming into a single Nation, which would be required if they were to conquer the surface.

- - -

How did a congenial conversation turn into an accusation that I was being dishonest, or misrepresenting what I was discussing?
The drow ARE an abomination. Did I not say there was a reason they are known as DARK elves? Did I not portray them as terrible, frightful, and best left alone?
If not, then I say now that that is a good interpretation of the drow. Terrible, frightful, and best left alone.

Losing your character is not very fun, and in my gaming career, going and fighting the drow was the fast track to just that.
People stopped going after the drow, after enough characters were killed in the attempt.
I should know, for I was there. I saw the slaughter.

A lot of people did start to play drow PCs, because they were so MUCH MORE powerful than any of the other races.
DMs had to tone down the drow, in order for them to fit in and not break the game (which led to more than one player-DM argument, as I remember.)
Eventually, the rules toned down the drow, and the drow became less popular as characters - at least, less popular in groups I was in or knew of.

When your average drow had magic resistance 50%, special spell-like abilities (detect magic, levitate, clairaudience, etc.), access at 1st level to magical arms and armor, special bonuses to stats (take a look at D1, Descend Into the Depths of the Earth, sometime), and special unlimited level advancement as a cleric or wizard, people moved to run this race as PCs.
Humans, halflings, dwarves, and even elves could not compete against this.
Of course, toned down they could, and the drow PCs inevitably got toned down.

However, the NPC drow were never toned down.
EVERY drow NPC was a terror, and a company of drow was a devastating enemy.

The idea that the races should be balanced did not exist for the drow back then, for a long time.
The idea, back then, was that the drow were BETTER than everyone else (ask Gary Gygax.)
The idea, back then, was that the average drow was worth five of anyone else, or more.

The idea, back then, as specifically stressed in the core material, was that the drow only did not take back the surface, and enslave everyone on it, simply because they were too chaotic to do so.
However, the idea of them uniting to do so was not ruled out. The idea of them putting aside their chaos to wage war was not ruled out.
And there was always Lolth.
Lolth functioned as the effective Strong Leader I keep talking about. The Leader who with fear and force would unite these chaotic evil beings into a tight organization.

Such were the drow of my gaming past.
In games I played in, in games I saw others playing in (or heard of, if I wasn't there), the drow were like this.

They truly were the abominations you speak of.
They also WERE the Accepted Drow. They were Accepted all too well.
And god knows, people were afraid of them.

Finally, please remember that these are the ENBoards, and that means Courtesy in Your Posts.

Edena_of_Neith
 

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