D&D 5E (2024) The Problem with Treantmonk's Hunter's Mark

[Horwath]

Thats the mindset that misses the point.

You're not wasting anything by not casting Hunters Mark first.

You cast Hunter's Mark when your 3rd, 4th, or 5th level spell drops concentration or dies. Or when you run out of them.

Those features are to make casting Hunter's Mark not feel bad.

it's not missing the point.

missing the design point is making high level features depend on (not really good) 1st level spell.
even worse on 1st level spell that has Concentration.

 

[Tigris]

it's not missing the point.

missing the design point is making high level features depend on (not really good) 1st level spell.
even worse on 1st level spell that has Concentration.

The high level feature at level 13 and 17 is "higher level spell slot". The same ranger had before (and nothing else!) At levels 13 and 17. And the same the paladin, the other half caster, gets at these levels. (Yes paladin in 2024 does not get a class feature on top of higher level spells at 13 and 17)

The hunters mark part is just a bonus for your backup. Thats great to have!

 

[Minigiant]

it's not missing the point.

missing the design point is making high level features depend on (not really good) 1st level spell.
even worse on 1st level spell that has Concentration.

High levels doesn't depend on high level except level 20.


Level 13 ranger spells casted

Fight 1: Summon Fey, Hunter's Mark, Hail of Thorns
Fight 2: Summon Fey, Hunter's Mark, Hail of Thorns
Fight 3: Summon Fey, Hunter's Mark,
Fight 4: Summon Beast, Ensnaring Strike
Fight 5: Ensnaring Strike, Spike Growth
Fight 6: Summon Elemental, Hunters Mark

 

[Horwath]

or how to not make ranger boring HM class, rework Favored enemy to work with all or most Ranger! spells.

1st level:
you get additional usages for casting any 1st level RANGER spell that you have prepared.
13th level:
RANGER spells do not lose concentration doe to damage
17th level:
while you are concentrating on a RANGER spell you have advantages on all attack rolls.
20th level:
while you are concentrating on a RANGER spell all your attacks deal extra +1d6 damage. Still pathetic. Might be +2d6 to be worth a capstone.

 

[Horwath]

also, you can use similar solution that other classes/subclasses use for concentration spells.
Shorter duration:

When you cast HM, you can have it only last 1minute(damage part) for not having Concentration tag.
Skill part(ribbon feature) lasts for full duration.

 

[Tigris]

or how to not make ranger boring HM class, rework Favored enemy to work with all or most Ranger! spells.

1st level:
you get additional usages for casting any 1st level RANGER spell that you have prepared.
13th level:
RANGER spells do not lose concentration doe to damage
17th level:
while you are concentrating on a RANGER spell you have advantages on all attack rolls.
20th level:
while you are concentrating on a RANGER spell all your attacks deal extra +1d6 damage. Still pathetic. Might be +2d6 to be worth a capstone.

Again spellcasters do NOT need a class feature on the levels they get higher spell slots.

Level 20 feature sure why not, but level 13 and 17 and even 1 feature is not needed.

The level 1 feature makes sure rangers always have some more or less useful combat spell prepared. Good for beginners, we dont need to overcomplicate.


The features as they are now make it such that players can use whatever spells they want and still be useful. Your features force for specific concentration spell optimization and add way more power to the class as a NON FEATURE should at level 13 and 17.

 

[Corinnguard]

The problem with hunters Mark is it should not be a spell in the first place. It should be a class feature that you can use a number of times per day, doesn't use concentration, and scales with class level. It should scale similar to the bards feature eventually ending up as a d12.

The 5e homebrewer Laser Llama actually did this with his alternate version of the Ranger class. Back in 2022, two years before the 2024 Ranger debuted.

Ranger's Quarry​

You focus your senses to hunt as a predator of the wild. Also at 2nd level, you can use a bonus action to mark one creature you can see as your Quarry, gaining the benefits below:

Whenever you damage it with an attack, you deal bonus damage equal to a roll of your Quarry Die, which is a d4.
Whenever you make an ability check to track or locate it, you can add one roll of your Quarry Die to your d20 roll.

These benefits last for 1 hour but end early if your Quarry is slain or if you mark another creature as your Quarry. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest. When you have no uses left, you can expend a spell slot to use this feature again.

When you reach 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th levels in this class, both the duration of Ranger's Quarry and the size of your Quarry Die increase, as indicated in the Ranger table.

At 6th level, the damage from Ranger's Quarry is 1d6 and its' benefits last about 8 hours.
At 10th level, the damage is d8 and the benefits last an entire day.
At 14th level, the damage goes up to a d10 and its' benefits last an entire week.
Finally, at 18th level, the damage from Ranger's Quarry goes up to a d12 and the benefits can last indefinitely.

Like the 2024 Ranger, Laser Llama's Alternate Ranger gains additional class features that work with its' Ranger's Quarry feature.

Feral Senses​

You hunt with the skills of an apex predator. At 5th level, you can't have disadvantage on attack rolls against your Quarry.
When you reach 18th level, you cannot have disadvantage on attack rolls against any target within 30 feet of you.

Tireless​

You are always ready for another hunt, never letting foes rest. Beginning at 11th level, you regain all of your expended uses of Ranger's Quarry whenever you finish a short or long rest.

Finally, the capstone for the Alternate Ranger:

Foe Slayer​

You are a Ranger of mythic skill, rivaling the great huntsmen of legend. At 20th level, whenever you hit your Quarry with a weapon attack, you can immediately end the mark and cause that attack to deal maximum damage instead of rolling. If the attack reduces the creature to 50 hit points or fewer, it must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against your Spell save DC or instantly be reduced to 0 hit points.

Alternate Ranger by laserllama

Alternate Ranger by laserllama - Created with GM Binder.

www.gmbinder.com

Two other things that I like about the Alternate Ranger class is that they are Prepared Half-Casters and their Knacks feature. The latter of which really allows a player to customize their Ranger even more by allowing them to choose how they want to present their Ranger in a gaming session.

 

[Horwath]

The features as they are now make it such that players can use whatever spells they want and still be useful. Your features force for specific concentration spell optimization and add way more power to the class as a NON FEATURE should at level 13 and 17.

right now features force players to use HM always, may rework just require ANY ranger Conc spell, including HM if you really like it that much.
does that makes rangers more powerful later on?
yes, a little.
Do rangers need power up?
Yes, they do.


or if you want it simple;

just replace HM with Divine favor spell in all effects for ranger features.
Divine favor is less damage, lasts only 1 minute, but leaves Conc tag free for other coll Ranger spell. And most are more fun than HM.

 

[Minigiant]

or how to not make ranger boring HM class, rework Favored enemy to work with all or most Ranger! spells.

1st level:
you get additional usages for casting any 1st level RANGER spell that you have prepared.
13th level:
RANGER spells do not lose concentration doe to damage
17th level:
while you are concentrating on a RANGER spell you have advantages on all attack rolls.
20th level:
while you are concentrating on a RANGER spell all your attacks deal extra +1d6 damage. Still pathetic. Might be +2d6 to be worth a capstone.

This misses the point of 5e rangers post Tasha.

Paladins are Burst.
Rangers are Sustain.

Rangers get more spells per day.

5.1e Rangers get 1-5 free utilty spells. So all their normal slots can be used for combat.

5.5e Rangers get 2-6 free combat spells. So some of their normal slots can be used for utilty And they have more slots to throw out if spells fail or lose concentration.

The point of Relentless Hunter and Precise Hunter is to make those free spells relevant.

 

[Tigris]

right now features force players to use HM always, may rework just require ANY ranger Conc spell, including HM if you really like it that much.
does that makes rangers more powerful later on?
yes, a little.
Do rangers need power up?
Yes, they do.


or if you want it simple;

just replace HM with Divine favor spell in all effects for ranger features.
Divine favor is less damage, lasts only 1 minute, but leaves Conc tag free for other coll Ranger spell. And most are more fun than HM.

No it is not forcing anything, it just makes the free low level spells relevant, compared to the new high level spell slots you gain.

Why should rangers need a power up? Some subclasses sure they are uneven in powerlevel, but the 2024 ranger is a lot stronger overall than the 2014 one with tashas.