D&D General The Purple Dragon Knights are tied to an Amethyst Dragon (confirmed)

[Necropolitan]

I’m sorry, but who? I get that you might be deeply entrenched in the lore but are you really expecting every designer to make rules or design decisions based upon every character ever to be in a FR novel.

What’s the goal here?

That's the point.

Those characters have about the same name recognition as Sammaster did before his revival was announced.

 

[TiQuinn]

That's the point.

Those characters have about the same name recognition as Sammaster did before his revival was announced.

I heard of Sammaster (and Ghost because I read one of those books). No idea who the others are.

I should note: The last book of the Cleric Quintent came out over 30 years ago. At what point does old content become obsolete?

 

[Amphytrion]

A character being undead counts as being dead for True Resurrection. It's why Astarion couldn't be brought back to life as a mortal with it in Baldur's Gate 3.

I understand this, which is why I said to ignore true resurrection. Nonetheless, you had mentioned in your comment that Sammaster had been dead dead for over 200 years, and I just wanted to correct that point.

Why not bring Prince Rivalen Tanthul then?
Or Vhostym?
Or Ghost (the assassin from the Cleric Quintet novels)?
They were all characters just as memorable as Sammaster who got killed off in novels or sourcebooks and PCs never got to face them.

At what point does a setting become oversaturated with characters who can never stay dead?

I only recognize one of those names, but nothing stops anyone from bringing them back. Bring back the Shade Princes, I say. They were fun.

The purpose of villains in a D&D campaign setting is to provide plot hooks for DMs and to be defeated by players, not NPCs in a novel. That doesn't mean that novel can't be fun to read, but you should expect it to be a tie-in, not a storyline unto itself.

Also, I disagree that the characters you list had the same recognition as Sammaster. Sammaster is founder, leader, and head of arguably the most iconic FR villain faction of all time. He is also a wizard, lich, and dragon maniac who has many options to return from the dead. I'd find it weird if he never returned, frankly.

I'm sympathetic to those who are upset at lore changes when it affects the players. I have a player who is very into Arthurian-themed fantasy, and I know she'd rather play as an old style Purple Dragon Knight rather than a dragon rider. That is because those are two completely separate player fantasies that play to two different audiences. In the case of the Purple Dragon Knights, shifting them from Camelot to Dragon Riders is a zero sum game: we lost something to gain something else. In the case of Sammaster, his return is a positive sum game: we only gain plot hooks for DMs, and we lose nothing.

 

[Parmandur]

At what point does a setting become oversaturated with characters who can never stay dead?

In the case of the Forgotten Realms, about 1990. But why should that stop them now?

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

Remember a couple months ago when a lot of articles came out that said that like Dungeons and Dragons as a brand is as well known as Star Wars, but Hasbro doesn't know how to translate that into sales?

Ask anybody under the age of like 45 to name a Dungeons & Dragons character, and the only ones they are likely to mention are those from Baldur's Gate 3... Or characters from critical role which are emphatically not owned by wizards of the coast. Relatively few people remember Drizzt or Elminster anymore: by contrast, plenty of people under 45, or even children, know who Darth Vader or Han Solo are. And going forward as Disney makes more Star wars content, most of the new characters that they introduce are variations on classic characters that have been well established over time from the past.

If D&D wants to sell as much naughty word as Star wars, it needs to create a cast of characters that are just as iconic as those of Star wars or marvel. Now they could create brand new characters ex nihilo, we saw that with the D&D movie and I do look forward to seeing some more of those characters, but that also means that they're going to dig deep in their well and try to emphasize characters from their history. If that means a character or two comes back to life, is that really a problem?

 

[Necropolitan]

Remember a couple months ago when a lot of articles came out that said that like Dungeons and Dragons as a brand is as well known as Star Wars, but Hasbro doesn't know how to translate that into sales?

Ask anybody under the age of like 45 to name a Dungeons & Dragons character, and the only ones they are likely to mention are those from Baldur's Gate 3... Or characters from critical role which are emphatically not owned by wizards of the coast. Relatively few people remember Drizzt or Elminster anymore: by contrast, plenty of people under 45, or even children, know who Darth Vader or Han Solo are. And going forward as Disney makes more Star wars content, most of the new characters that they introduce are variations on classic characters that have been well established over time from the past.

If D&D wants to sell as much naughty word as Star wars, it needs to create a cast of characters that are just as iconic as those of Star wars or marvel. Now they could create brand new characters ex nihilo, we saw that with the D&D movie and I do look forward to seeing some more of those characters, but that also means that they're going to dig deep in their well and try to emphasize characters from their history. If that means a character or two comes back to life, is that really a problem?

The problem is then you have the "Somehow Palpatine returned" issue to deal with.

Or you could call it the "Angry Bob Problem."

 

[Jensaarai]

with all these Afterlives and Great Beyonds that pretty much all souls go to, it kinda puts the kibosh on the assumption that death is actually the end for a villain. Especially when we're talking about a powerful cult leader and spell caster like Sammaster, whose whole deal involves a lot of resurrecting formerly Very-Dead dragons into dracoliches or whatever.

Villains almost always have a plan to come back from the dead. They might have to actually present such a plan to the Board of Villains to get their PhD in Villainy.

 

[Amphytrion]

with all these Afterlives and Great Beyonds that pretty much all souls go to, it kinda puts the kibosh on the assumption that death is actually the end for a villain. Especially when we're talking about a powerful cult leader and spell caster like Sammaster, whose whole deal involves a lot of resurrecting formerly Very-Dead dragons into dracoliches or whatever.

There is also the wrinkle that dragon lore has evolved a lot since Sammaster last died, especially in Fizban’s, and now a lich obsessed with unlocking the power of dracoliches has much more to play with.

Maybe he wants to weaponize Dragonsight. Maybe he wants to use the Echoes to reach further into the cosmos. Maybe he wants to explore the dragons’ connection with the First World. Maybe he wants to bring Sardior back as an uber-dracolich. Megalomania galore.

 

[Necropolitan]

There is also the wrinkle that dragon lore has evolved a lot since Sammaster last died, especially in Fizban’s, and now a lich obsessed with unlocking the power of dracoliches has much more to play with.

Maybe he wants to weaponize Dragonsight. Maybe he wants to use the Echoes to reach further into the cosmos. Maybe he wants to explore the dragons’ connection with the First World. Maybe he wants to bring Sardior back as an uber-dracolich. Megalomania galore.

Unless Sammaster's new plan is bigger than making every single dragon in the world (as in literally all of them) go violently insane so he can convince them their only options are becoming Dracoliches or losing their minds then it's going to be a letdown.

If all he does is go back to running the Cult of the Dragon it'll be like if the MCU brought Thanos back but he's just robbing banks.

More specifically Sammaster's plan needs to involve the mistranslated prophecy that's his sole reason for still existing. He believes that "Dead dragons will rule the world entire" and he's dedicated every moment of his existence to seeing that come to pass. So if undead dragons aren't involved it'll feel like he's a completely different character.

The Sardior Dracolich idea could work. Or making it so every single dead dragon turns into an undead of some sort. I'm just hoping they don't water his motivation down or lower the level of his power or scheming.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

A big part of the reason for the negative reactions is WOTC has been putting out a lot of bad ideas.

Like what?