D&D (2024) The rapier problem

[Hriston]

I love swashbuckling characters, I do. But there should not be one best weapon in the game for a huge swath of characters. But right now, there is: the rapier.

If I want to make a genasi Thief of Bagdad style swashbuckler, I will be costing myself damage output (the main contribution swashbucklers bring to a party) by going with a scimitar instead of a rapier. Likewise a halfling thief with a short sword, or any other aesthetic choices that are, by the math, "wrong."

(See also no one using slings or a host of other weapons, because it's never the right decision to make.)

I'm not sure what the fix is.

Make weapon stats more similar, with only flavor between them? I believe there's an OSR game (maybe either the White or Black Hack) where every class does a set amount of damage, no matter what weapon they're using.

Make weapon stats far more complex, with every weapon being situationally good? The odds are that there will still be a "best" weapon and it'll just take the hardcore math types throwing everything into a spreadsheet to determine what it is.

What do you think? Is this a problem in your game? Have you attempted to fix it in some fashion?

Yes. I call it an arming sword. Problem solved.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

'Ugh, I really need 400gp for a breastplate, I will do anything for it... okay, got it, now I want for nothing ever again.'

Not that I like magic shops, but...

I will never grok this. Why aren’t your PCs spending gold on things like hiring NPCs, buying land or ships or wagons, and doing things other than just going back into the next dungeon?

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I will never grok this. Why aren’t your PCs spending gold on things like hiring NPCs, buying land or ships or wagons, and doing things other than just going back into the next dungeon?

Because not everyone's idea of a DnD adventure is managing the NPC army you send in to adventure instead of yourself? And what is the purpose of investing in land/ship/wagons/businesses, but to make more money to do nothing with?

DnD has no rules for estate management. It has no rules for running a proper business. It has no rules for improving your status in society through wealth. Rules are how players interact with the game world, and it sure would be nice to have something like those as an intended gold sink / roleplay opportunity / world showcase. But instead, we get hundreds of pages of combat spells, because the game itself is telling us that it is not about those things.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Because not everyone's idea of a DnD adventure is managing the NPC army you send in to adventure instead of yourself?

That’s really the only thing you can imagine using hired NPCs for? Seriously!?

And what management? You hire some guys to do a thing. If it’s on a long term basis, you simplify the gameplay by making it a bigger payment. Why on earth would you “manage” them?

And what is the purpose of investing in land/ship/wagons/businesses, but to make more money to do nothing with?

Obtain rare material while doing more interesting things on your adventures, get a source of information that you just set up and it feeds you intel over time, have a ship and crew that know the surrounding coastlines and sea around the area where you tend to adventure, gain passive “turnkey” access to the circles of wealth without your DM having to preposterously pretend that dirty hobos who’ve killed a few dragons would be anything other than a curiosity anywhere respectable, not to mention all the many things particular to a campaign and setting.

DnD has no rules for estate management. It has no rules for running a trade empire. It has no rules for improving your status in society through wealth. Rules are how players interact with the game world, and the game says you do that via fireballs.

That is a horrendously reductive view of playing the game.

You and I would not enjoy each other’s games, I expect.

 

[Ancalagon]

I see mention of rapiers now doing 1d6 - I apologize for barging in a bit, but is this part of the playtest or just an "idea"?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I see mention of rapiers now doing 1d6 - I apologize for barging in a bit, but is this part of the playtest or just an "idea"?

Pure ideas. We've seen nothing on weapons (which probably won't change) for the playtest.

 

[Clint_L]

There're only two actual "fixes" I can think of, and one of them is basically what you brought up.

1) Normalize weapon damage dice by type. Light 1-handed = 1d6, medium 1-handed = 1d8, 1d10 versatile, 2-handed = 2d6.

This is simple and people would complain about weapons feeling too similar.

I think this is the best option. People can then use whatever flavour they want, and we will see far more weapon types actually being used in the story of the game.

The problem with tying advantages/disadvantages to specific weapon types is it actually decreases the variety of weapons that get used, per the OP. I remember in AD&D when the PHB listed every melee weapon under the sun with pretty granular detail but only about 5 got regularly used. For the sake of both gameplay and the story it makes far more sense to standardize them and then add text to help players come up with the specific details of their particular light martial weapon, or whatever.

 

[Gorck]

I think this is the best option. People can then use whatever flavour they want, and we will see far more weapon types actually being used in the story of the game.

The problem with tying advantages/disadvantages to specific weapon types is it actually decreases the variety of weapons that get used, per the OP. I remember in AD&D when the PHB listed every melee weapon under the sun with pretty granular detail but only about 5 got regularly used. For the sake of both gameplay and the story it makes far more sense to standardize them and then add text to help players come up with the specific details of their particular light martial weapon, or whatever.

That's great for people who are experts in weaponry. But I highly doubt my 10 year old daughter knows the difference between a shortsword, longsword, rapier, and scimitar. And I bet she'd never even heard of a glaive or a halberd.

EDIT: I just asked her and I was right on both points. She DID know that a rapier does piercing damage.

 

[SakanaSensei]

That's great for people who are experts in weaponry. But I highly doubt my 10 year old daughter knows the difference between a shortsword, longsword, rapier, and scimitar. And I bet she'd never even heard of a glaive or a halberd.

EDIT: I just asked her and I was right on both points. She DID know that a rapier does piercing damage.

Wouldn't standardized weapon damage die sizes be even easier for people like your daughter? Like, no need to go over all these fiddly options in detail, take a look at the image of weapons on page X and pick what looks coolest.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I only knew what a halberd was as a kid because my little brother owned a smurf who inexplicably wielded one. (The war against Gargamel got pretty intense, I assume, if the smurfs were preparing to cut off the cat's head.)