D&D 3E/3.5 The Real Question for 3e Grognards

[Pinotage]

Nothing against Erika and crew, but I think this is entirely untrue. Paizo might be one of the biggest fish in the d20 pond, but they're still a small fish in the RPG sea.

Sure they're smaller than WotC. That's a given. And sure there are other RPGs that are bigger. WoD might be one of them, or any of WW games. We're not talking huge numbers here, but I'm sure they hold a good sway with people's decisions.

Paizo is one of the top publishers in d20 (if not the top, certainly for 3.5e material), and many people love their work. A lot of people are excited about Pathfinder and Golorian. If Paizo decided to stick with 3.5e, I think they'd keep a lot of people on 3.5e simply because these people love their game lines (Pathfinder, GameMastery, etc.). From the latest poll, it looked like a 70/30 split betwen 4e and 3.5e. I think Paizo can change that by a few percent whatever it decides to do. And that few percent is significant amongst 3rd party publishers.

Pinotage

 

[S'mon]

Dragonsfoot hosts modern 'retro' games like C&C - it's about mood & feel, not actual age.

The d20 forum on rpgnet should stay suitable for 3e.

 

[S'mon]

Dragonsfoot and rpg.net both hate 3e. Dragonsfoot hates anything that's new. And by new I mean published this millennium. Rpg.net hates anything that's popular.

I recommend you stay at ENWorld. Presumably there will be a 3e forum once 4e is published.

Dragonsfoot does hate 3e, otherwise all those statements are false.

1. The d20 forum on rpgnet is welcoming to 3e.
2. Dragonsfoot is fine with new games that have an 'old school' feel - C&C, Lejendary Adventures, Hackmaster, Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy et al.
3. Exalted is popular.

 

[S'mon]

I've been shot at by people with less hate than I see at Dragonsfoot. It's really disappointing, I mean I may not like 4e but I don't run around spewing that sort of vitriol.

IME the extreme vitriol is only in the 1e forum. Other forums are pretty laid-back and you even can type "3e" without getting flamed by the moderators.

 

[Campbell]

Dragonsfoot hosts modern 'retro' games like C&C - it's about mood & feel, not actual age.

The d20 forum on rpgnet should stay suitable for 3e.

Agreed on Dragonsfoot. It isn't really a forum for OOP D&D so much as a forum dedicated to Classic D&D (although I've found it decidedly skewed towards AD&D over BD&D and OD&D).

I'm not sure I agree with you on RPG.net . If people are looking for a discussion board where 3e is favored over 4e it might not be their best bet. Star Wars Saga Edition is something of an RPG.net darling and I'm seeing a lot of positive 4e vibes over there. Of course I don't expect to see too much in the way of brutal edition wars either there or here.

 

[Turjan]

Nothing against Erika and crew...

Oh, I completely missed that: When did he do that gender change operation? That's a neat way of tackling the "not enough female gamers" problem .

 

[Henry]

Oh, I completely missed that: When did he do that gender change operation? That's a neat way of tackling the "not enough female gamers" problem .

Probably right around the time the Paizo crew was snowed in and had to resort to cannibalism to survive. I mean, you're snowed in, you've eaten your Phil of human flesh, there's nothing to do, it's boring -- what better to pass the time than a gender operation? Erika suggests they draw straws, and...

She's probably still bitter about that sleight of hand James Jacobs pulled on the drawing, so it's probably best not to mention it and keep calling her "Erik."

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Thanks for getting the humor angle of the post, all And I'd be really disappointed to leave EN World, since it's got such a great community and place with D&D on the net.

But there is some seriousness in with the hyperbole and exaggeration. I've noticed the atmosphere of the boards changing and a group of posters rising in prominence that really makes 3e people feel unwelcome. Some of my favorite posters no longer hang around here after the first few post-announcement flamewars restarted. I've gotten the impression that as a 3e holdout I'm unwelcome simply because I won't switch more than a few times. I believe Morrus that we'll always be welcome here, especially as Eric Noah isn't switching either. Still people have left the forums here over it and unless they come back after the uproar dies down EN World could end up largely abandoned by 3e DMs and players. Not like there are many 2e holdouts around these parts. Which leaves the question of what place does 3e have on the net? EN World has been the home of 3e on the net, but that could change. Piazo could lose them if in making the switch to 4e the new influx makes them feel unwelcome. And where would that leave 3e people to congregate on the net?

 

[kennew142]

Sure they're smaller than WotC. That's a given. And sure there are other RPGs that are bigger. WoD might be one of them, or any of WW games. We're not talking huge numbers here, but I'm sure they hold a good sway with people's decisions.

Paizo is one of the top publishers in d20 (if not the top, certainly for 3.5e material), and many people love their work. A lot of people are excited about Pathfinder and Golorian. If Paizo decided to stick with 3.5e, I think they'd keep a lot of people on 3.5e simply because these people love their game lines (Pathfinder, GameMastery, etc.). From the latest poll, it looked like a 70/30 split betwen 4e and 3.5e. I think Paizo can change that by a few percent whatever it decides to do. And that few percent is significant amongst 3rd party publishers.

Pinotage

There may be enough of a 3.5 market for a niche PDF publisher, but Paizo is a pretty substantial RPG company these days. Their customer base will shrink after 4e comes out. If they don't convert, they will lose many of their customers, even charter subscribers like me. The 15% discount they are offering to subscribers will not keep me as a customer once 4e comes out. I know that I will have no difficulty converting 3e scenarios to 4e. I convert GURPS, AD&D and Rolemaster scenarios to 3e. But I have no desire for any more 3e crunch. If Paizo stayed with 3e and published scenarios with no new 3e crunch at all, I would consider staying a subscriber. But I consider all new 3e crunch to be wasted page count. I won't pay a dime for it after the release of 4e.

 

[Khairn]

But there is some seriousness in with the hyperbole and exaggeration. I've noticed the atmosphere of the boards changing and a group of posters rising in prominence that really makes 3e people feel unwelcome. Some of my favorite posters no longer hang around here after the first few post-announcement flamewars restarted. I've gotten the impression that as a 3e holdout I'm unwelcome simply because I won't switch more than a few times. I believe Morrus that we'll always be welcome here, especially as Eric Noah isn't switching either. Still people have left the forums here over it and unless they come back after the uproar dies down EN World could end up largely abandoned by 3e DMs and players. Not like there are many 2e holdouts around these parts. Which leaves the question of what place does 3e have on the net? EN World has been the home of 3e on the net, but that could change. Piazo could lose them if in making the switch to 4e the new influx makes them feel unwelcome. And where would that leave 3e people to congregate on the net?

I agree with your observation regarding the change of atmosphere. It's definitely noticeable ... to me at least.

I think that Paizo is in the best position to take advantage of the schism. I know that eventually they will adopt 4E, but if they continue supporting some 3E content in Pathfinder (as an example) by dual stating or separate 3E adventures, then I think they can gather both sides of the debate under 1 roof.