The reason for the cleric class' lack of popularity?

[Kuld]

If people are looking for good D&D cleric inspiration in literary tradition, I must recommend the Voyage of Saint Brendan, Life of Saint Columban, Life of Saint Cuthbert and Life of Saint Gall.

I will have to check those out. Thanks

 

[woodelf]

Though oddly, the one player of mine who was the most decidedly anti-religious IRL tended to play clerics and paladins more than any other class.

Maybe her objection to religion in RL is because she's an idealist? I've certainly known a fair number of people who are deeply faithful, but don't belong to any organized religion because they see organized religion as a corruption of "the real thing". Anyway, if that's the case, playing a devoutly religious character in a fantasy setting, where things tend to be more black-and-white, would likely be very appealing. A chance to be someone she doesn't feel she can be in RL, in effect. Just a thought.

 

[Starglim]

That's a good point. There are no clerics in the classic DnD literature - Tolkien, Howard, Moorcock, Vance, Leiber, Anderson. No druids, monks or bards either.

Moorcock and Howard have lots of clerics: Rackhir, the priests of Law in Knight of the Swords, Jagreen Lern, Bishop Beesley, the priests of Mitra and Asura .. Jack Vance has a number of Christian priests as mostly bad guys in Lyonesse. Not all of them are heavily armoured mace-wielding frontline fighters (which is one reason that I'd want to mix up weapon and armour proficiencies in a setting of my own) but many are recognisable adventurers.

 

[beaver1024]

I have an abundance of clerics in my campaign. 3 clerics and 1 rogue to be exact. No shortage of people wanting to play clerics either.

 

[Kalendraf]

First off, I personally think clerics rock hard, but my players seem to usually have a much different viewpoint. I guess it mostly boils down to clerics being viewed as a rather boring, un-exciting class to play. Why that stereotype exists is probably a combination of multiple factors.

A ) Cleric = healer. This is a standard view, and many players feel being reduced to a healer role is boring. Of course you can play a different style cleric, but people complain when the cleric can't heal.
B ) Sub-par at dealing damage. I personally disagree with this sentiment, but it seems to be a common view. Obviously spells can enhance the cleric quite a bit, but they usually aren't as spectacular at dishing out the pain compaired to fighters or wizards.
C ) Forced to obey a god. This is quite campaign specific, but all your power is derived from some higher being so they potentially have some say in what you do.
D ) In 3e/3.5, limited feats & skills. Many players see feats and skills as ways to tailor/specialize or otherwise make a cool character, and the cleric seems much more limited in that regard.

I'm sure there's a few others I'm forgetting. I often find getting someone to play a cleric is difficult. When the players are selecting characters, the cleric is like that ugly, shrimpy kid that no one wants to pick for their team, and invariably gets picked last. I often have to find some other incentive to get someone to play one, which is frustrating.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

First off, I personally think clerics rock hard, but my players seem to usually have a much different viewpoint. I guess it mostly boils down to clerics being viewed as a rather boring, un-exciting class to play. Why that stereotype exists is probably a combination of multiple factors.

A ) Cleric = healer. This is a standard view, and many players feel being reduced to a healer role is boring. Of course you can play a different style cleric, but people complain when the cleric can't heal.
B ) Sub-par at dealing damage. I personally disagree with this sentiment, but it seems to be a common view. Obviously spells can enhance the cleric quite a bit, but they usually aren't as spectacular at dishing out the pain compaired to fighters or wizards.
C ) Forced to obey a god. This is quite campaign specific, but all your power is derived from some higher being so they potentially have some say in what you do.
D ) In 3e/3.5, limited feats & skills. Many players see feats and skills as ways to tailor/specialize or otherwise make a cool character, and the cleric seems much more limited in that regard.

I'm sure there's a few others I'm forgetting. I often find getting someone to play a cleric is difficult. When the players are selecting characters, the cleric is like that ugly, shrimpy kid that no one wants to pick for their team, and invariably gets picked last. I often have to find some other incentive to get someone to play one, which is frustrating.

Answers:

A: You don't have to be the healer and that's that. Clerics can be all things. Mine usually tend to be "butt-kickers" rather than just a "healing battery".

B: They can deal decent damage, about the same as an average fighter. (not including the bonus feats fighters get) It's their lessened chance to hit is what makes it harder a bit to do damage.

C: 3.0/3.5 removed that restriction. Unless your DM overrides that and makes you choose a deity. You can still have fun even when you have to pick a god for the cleric to worship. I had a blast with a cleric who could still have a 'tude and serve her deity at the same time.

D: Yes, the number of skills/skill points a cleric gets SUCK. There's TOO FEW to go around!!! And the number of feats isn't too bad. You can make a cleric any way you want with feat selections. Be a more potent spellcaster cleric or a more potent melee cleric. You choose!!

We don't usually have that problem. Although sometimes it is that last guy who shows up and he goes, "oh, CRAP!" when we tell him we need a healer. There was one time in a game where we were down to a Ranger (for scouting) and a cleric and it was me and another guy. I was talking to his wife on the phone, telling her we were down to these two options and I heard him in the background, saying, "I'm not playing a damn cleric!!!" That was when I made that fun to play cleric, Rozhena (see sig) and gave her the witchy attitude to go along with her martial skills to kick major arse!

 

[A'koss]

I don't know how much more I can add to this discussion other than to say that I've had similar problems getting players to want to take on the role of the cleric of the party. Not to the extent that I'm sure others have seen, but they are far down the list of populars classes indeed. I see the same issues as well - you have a combination of a lack of popular archetypes (I think this is the biggest for our group), the support role (and IMCs, you so need the healing touch ), the idea of your powers being dependent on another (this one's just purely psychological, I haven't abused that authority in years... ).

We've had cleric players every now and again though. We've certainly seen more PC clerics than Bards or Druids mind you, but that's not really saying much.

Cheers!

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

You add up the abilities in a cold-blooded spreadsheet and the Cleric looks like the most powerful class. But the Cleric is just not "sexy". It does not have the right stuff to really grab the spotlight. Most players want to glory in the occasional 15 seconds of fame even if it means standing in the darkness other times. All the other classes are better suited to steal the show.

Personally I think the Cleric=Boring Healer stereotype is because players are seduced by all the defensive abilities and fail to focus. You certainly can have a Cleric with a starting 12 Wis, dumpstat Int & Cha, and have good enough physical stats to be competitive on the front line. 1 or 3 levels of Cleric blends extremely well with Fighter, Barbarian, or Rogue.

 

[Ycore Rixle]

... and let's not forget Katherine Kurtz and the Deryni and Camber of Culdi series.

Lots of priestly figures there.

Yep, that was the one that sprang to my mind. Definitely some hero-clerics there. Good series.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

You add up the abilities in a cold-blooded spreadsheet and the Cleric looks like the most powerful class. But the Cleric is just not "sexy". It does not have the right stuff to really grab the spotlight. Most players want to glory in the occasional 15 seconds of fame even if it means standing in the darkness other times. All the other classes are better suited to steal the show.

Personally I think the Cleric=Boring Healer stereotype is because players are seduced by all the defensive abilities and fail to focus. You certainly can have a Cleric with a starting 12 Wis, dumpstat Int & Cha, and have good enough physical stats to be competitive on the front line. 1 or 3 levels of Cleric blends extremely well with Fighter, Barbarian, or Rogue.

Hmmm, turning undead has always struck me as prime time for show stealing. Roleplay it, don't just roll play it and it has a lot of drama. Gandalf vs. the Balrog 'Thou shall not pass' scenes.

The Auld Grump