...the REST of our gaming groups

Samothdm said:
I think die_kluge makes a good point - how do you turn a casual fan into an enthusiast?

I game in two groups - one that I DM and the other where I'm a player.

In both groups, I've noticed a general lack of interest on the part of players to buy/read other D&D books beyond just the Players Handbook.

It's extremely frustrating for the group for which I DM. I've spent the past 12+ years creating a pretty detailed world and I update our game-related website every week. Only one or two of my players ever read it.

I mention new feats, new spells, new PrCs to them and their eyes glaze over. Many of them don't even understand what a PrC is, even after I've showed them the classes in the DMG and splatbooks and explained how they can qualify.

I bought a Player's Handbook and DotF for my cleric player for his birthday and he's never read them. But, he dutifully shows up every other week for our session. I just don't get it.

I've tried to give XP awards for people who read the website updates. Didn't work. They didn't seem to care.

I guess I'm just ranting now. But, I understand the frustration that occurs when you want to talk about aspects of the game (such as the "business" side of D&D that we can read about on these forums) and your fellow "gamers" are not interested.

SamothDM, I'm curious as to what they would say if you just asked them point-blank about their apparent lack of interest? I've encounted some players that only play one kind of character. I know some that stick to non-spellcasting classes because of the complexity. These kinds of players, while they are fans of the game, are mostly casual fans. They REALLY have a niche in the game, and don't leave that niche. These are the kinds of players that pretty much only play dwarven fighters, and nothing else. Or something similar, at least. Are your players like that?

Of the players that you have whose eyes glaze over when you get into the meat of the game, have you ever asked them why they get so bored with the details? I'd be like, "look, if you're not interested in this stuff, why do you continue to even play this game?!"
 

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JoeBlank said:
The others realized that some of us were more into it, and they did not want to curtail our enjoyment, so they agreed that we could use non-core books, but we limited it to WoTC. This was probably fear of the unknown, and a feeling that we could trust WoTC to produce balanced material. Now we are considering allowing non-WoTC materials, probably on a case-by-case basis. Have others encountered this, a fear of non-WoTC products?

JoeBlank, I think there is quite a large reluctance among the gaming populace to stear clear of non-WoTC stuff. Since Scarred Lands stuff came out around the same time, many people view that line as being equivalent to WoTCs products, so in that case, the early bird got the worm, although certainly things that have come since then are just as balanced, and just as good.

That's not to say that your group is right in hesitating with allowing things into the game. When I DM'd, my rule was I could use anything I wanted, but the players had to approve stuff through me. I'm not DM'ing today, but if I were, even WoTC wouldn't be automatically allowed.
 

Re: Re: ...the REST of our gaming groups

Furn_Darkside said:

None of them are active enough in gaming to even be able to name a 3rd parrty publisher.

FD

This coming Saturday is game night for our group.

I'm going to quiz them - how many D20 companies can you name.

The results should be interesting - especially if they can't even name the game company I write for!
 

Re: We need to go public

reddist said:
Yo Curtis.... Interesting delima here.

Locally? Volunteer to run D&D "lite" games at libraries as part of some after-school kid's program. Advertise your group on college campuses. Start sanctioned clubs on campuses and recruit members during that "rush-week" right before classes start. Include a game of Frag or Giant Monster Rampage in your next team-builder at work. Invite your usual dinner guests over on the weekend and whip out the D&D Box set (that starter game with the crap dice).

got computer gamers you wanna pull in? Run a p&p game of d20 Diablo II or d20 Everquest. Show them the joys of playing face to face with other humans.

Hook 'em and reel 'em in! We gotta go mainstream.

Who's got other suggestions?

-Reddist

This is the major role I see the RPGA serving. Unfortunately, most RPGA members are more concerned with winning trophies and getting "points" than they are bringing new people into the game. *sigh*

Good suggestions, though, although I don't see Jay Leno inviting Ryan Dancey to the Tonight Show anytime soon. :)
 

Re: Re: Re: ...the REST of our gaming groups

die_kluge said:


This coming Saturday is game night for our group.

I'm going to quiz them - how many D20 companies can you name.

The results should be interesting - especially if they can't even name the game company I write for!

Are you going to give a prize for the one who can? :D

And what company do you work for? :)
 

My group is split. I think three of the players have only the PHB.

The other three--the DM, myself, and another player--buy a lot of 3e stuff. I think we all buy most of the WotC stuff, but I also buy some other brands. Not sure how much "3rd party" stuff the other two buy. But, we all have a lot of 3e stuff.

If you expand to other games, at least two of us have several d20 items that are not for DnD.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: ...the REST of our gaming groups

Crothian said:


Are you going to give a prize for the one who can? :D

And what company do you work for? :)

Their prize is that I game with them. :)

I write for THG/MEG


edit: they're/their it all sounds the same...
 
Last edited:

Samothdm said:
In both groups, I've noticed a general lack of interest on the part of players to buy/read other
D&D books beyond just the Players Handbook.

It's extremely frustrating for the group for which I DM. I've spent the past 12+ years creating
a pretty detailed world and I update our game-related website every week. Only one or two
of my players ever read it.

I mention new feats, new spells, new PrCs to them and their eyes glaze over. Many of them
don't even understand what a PrC is, even after I've showed them the classes in the DMG
and splatbooks and explained how they can qualify.

I bought a Player's Handbook and DotF for my cleric player for his birthday and he's never
read them. But, he dutifully shows up every other week for our session. I just don't get it.

I've tried to give XP awards for people who read the website updates. Didn't work. They
didn't seem to care.

I guess I'm just ranting now. But, I understand the frustration that occurs when you want to
talk about aspects of the game (such as the "business" side of D&D that we can read about
on these forums) and your fellow "gamers" are not interested.

<Begin Rant>
I'm SO there with you!
In my group everyone (except me) are very casual gamers. One guy has all the 2e Greyhawk stuff, but for 3e he only has the PHB, and he participates very rarely. He has wife and two kids, which understandably takes precedence.
The other 4 guys own NO rpg related material whatsoever! (excluding dice) I remember when I mentioned that WotC would be raising the price on the core books, and that they had to hurry to get the PHB at the low price, one player said directly, that he would never spend any money on any rpg stuff:( This is for a couple of the players in part due to poor English skills. And no, there isn't a Danish translation :rolleyes:

I don't think a group can get any more casual than ours. I would love to play every week, but the others couldn't (wouldn't) possible find time for any more than once every three weeks max. On top of that, saturdays and sundays are more or less banned, since they might want to go out the night before and get drunk, and so wouldn't wanna play the next day:( This means that we have to play from approx. 6pm to, maybe, 11pm on a weekday, and since we usually eat together first, and about one third of the time is spent on non-rpg-related chit-chat, there is very little actual gaming going on. All in all, this really messes with any kind of campaign continuity:(

I really have to find someone else to play with:o
</End of Rant>

BTW, our group consist of 5 24-27 yo, two unemployed, two machinists(?), one studying computernetworking, and one (me)studying to be a caretaker(?) (anything from kids to mentally challenged etc.)

None of the players know anything about d20, third party publishers, ENWorld and the like.

darklight
 

Well, since I play DnD both at college and at home, I'm in a few groups.

First of all, my group at home consists mostly of high schoolers. I own the 3 core books, Magic of Faerun, R&R, the Psi book most of the Malhavoc stuff, Heroes of high favor, and the splats: S&F, T&B, and MotW. My brother owns the 3 core books, Magic of Faerun, FR hardcover, the BoEMs, S&F, S&S, MotW, Psionics, Spycraft, and some adventures - Of sound mind, to stand on hallowed ground, nature's fury, and the first 3 WotC path modules. We see to be the most aware of 3rd party products. Another player has the core books, psionics, and DotF. My brother fears the day he finds out about the Epic book. One guy doesn't even own dice, because his parents are anti-rpg and the last owns only the PHB, IIRC.

One of my groups at college doesn't really play 3e. Most have spent too much on previous editions and resent having to buy new things. However, some of them have PHBs, I think 2 other people have the core books, and one of those 2 has DotF, The Quint Fighter, and thieves in the forest. Of course, this info is a few months old. We mostly play other games though.

My other group played just 3e. The DM, who isn't going to back this semester, had the core books, FR, magic and monsters of FR, some of the splats, psionics, HoNS, and probably some other things. 2 people were relatively new and had nothing. The other four had at least PHBs and I think some had the other core books as well. Two of the players had some splat books - MotW, and DotF for certain.

It seems that most people tend to stick with WotC stuff. As far as I know, only my brother and one of the DnD players at college check at this sight. WotC products tend to get more exposure, and often have higher production values - full color, nice covers, etc, so they probably get lots of attention. Also, it's harder to find 3rd party stuff. My brother ended up getting some of his books at the game store in Ames, because the game stores in St. Louis aren't that great. The Hastings in Ames has more up to date d20 stuff than the Hobbytown here.

One of the good and bad things about RPGs is that people can share materials easily. At school, most people could look at the DM's or my books when they wanted to pick new spells. They don't really need to buy R&R or T&B when I show the cool spells or prestige classes they'd be interested in. We've started playing Spycraft here alot, because we don't want to run our DnD games without everyone present, but there's only book. Groups don't really need a whole lot of overlap in books, especially if characters are created at the game session. This situation is good for gamers, because it's pretty easy to get started with a relatively cheap book, borrowed dice, and an existing group. However, it's also bad for publishers of secondary materials. A copy or two of any secondary book can usually servive the entire group. Of course, it also means that some people might buy different secondary books - because the group already has a copy of splat book X, the player looking to expand his collection might get the 3rd party publisher's Z compendium. People can expand and look for new interesting things that haven't been covered, or maybe they disagree on Song and Silence's take on Bards, so they look for a 3rd party bard book. If someone in the group hadn't had S&S, they won't have know they disagreed, and might not have sought an alternative.
 

SamothDM, I'm curious as to what they would say if you just asked them point-blank about their apparent lack of interest? I've encounted some players that only play one kind of character. I know some that stick to non-spellcasting classes because of the complexity. These kinds of players, while they are fans of the game, are mostly casual fans. They REALLY have a niche in the game, and don't leave that niche. These are the kinds of players that pretty much only play dwarven fighters, and nothing else. Or something similar, at least. Are your players like that?

It's not like that exactly. It's just that they don't spend one iota of time inbetween sessions thinking about the game at all. I e-mail out XP after each session, and they tell them in the e-mail "If you went up in level, please pick your class, skills, feats (if applicable), spells, etc. BEFORE the next session so that we don't spend game time doing this."

And, what happens? They wait to do it until they show up. They each have a PH. But, it's like they don't know how to read or something. "What's that feat do?" They're constantly getting confused between skills and feats, and one guy seems to think that having a PrC is like having a "kit" from 2E. Ugh.

I'll ask them to think about what direction they want their characters to go. "What do you want your character to be in 5 levels?" and the answer is always "I don't know."

I'm ranting here, so I guess I'll just continue: One guy was playing a fighter, but he wanted access to summon monster spells without multi-classing as a spellcaster. I talked to him about what he envisioned for his character, and took the time to create a specialized "blood summoner" PrC that uses a higher BAB and HP than typical spellcasters, but has a very limited spell-list (basically just the summon monster spells and a couple of others). I made the requirements pretty steep and wrote a history of the class to fit it into my world. It was exactly what he wanted from the conversations I had with him. So, he looked at it, decided it would take too long for him to qualify for, and all he really wanted was just the summon monster spells, so he's not going to take it. There goes about three or four days of my life making that PrC for nothing.

I have asked them point-blank why they're not interested in many aspects of the game, but they usually just mumble that they don't have time or whatever. I've tried to forward them articles from Dragon and from websites about "How to be a better player" type stuff, and they say that they read it, but it doesn't really connect with them.

Honestly, though, at least I have a group to game with so I shouldn't complain so much. As a DM, though, it's very frustrating when I take a lot of time to put stuff together and write detailed histories of my world and its NPCs and the players don't seem to care.
 

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