D&D 5E The Return of the HealBot

[Gargoyle]

What healing do you mean here? If you mean Cleric's healing, then this may be true if you are coming from 4e where AFAIK there are plenty of options to heal yourself automatically and there are many classes which can heal others.

But if you are coming from any earlier edition, 5e has MORE healing than ever out-of-combat, so a healing cleric is certainly not more needed than it was before and possibly less.

I don't agree with the notion that a cleric has ever been needed in any edition for healing after combat. People want healers for their in combat healing so that their characters don't die ignominious deaths; killing the dragon before sundown is just a bonus.

But I don't think clerics are more needed in 5e. I think the perception that they are needed is about the same as in all other editions...people still don't want their characters to die.

I do like the Herbalist Specialist; it helps in smaller parties or when no one wants to play a healing class but wants some healing ability. Options like that are nice. But then they also put in the Divine Magic Specialist, allowing clerics to become even better healers. Ok Bobby, not only do we want you to play a cleric, you need to choose the Divine Magic Specialist option to be an even better Healbot!

 

[Libramarian]

When the designers design the game they assume that players will have access to healing of some sort. They assume players can heal in the middle of deadly situations. "Play whatever you want but be aware that unless you play X the game design will fall apart." is ridiculous.

People should not just be allowed to play whatever they want to play, they should be encouraged to play whatever they want to play. Make people WANT to play clerics.

As has been pointed out numerous times, some people enjoy playing healers. We will likely be getting the Warlord back from 4e, so that seems like a great option for the new school healer who shouts at people to stop being babies without any of the touchy feely sappy stuff.

 

[eprieur]

One idea I just had for feats, I was thinking about how the burden of active defense and heals should be spread on everyone instead of being only on the cleric traditionally.

Feats like herbalism and the ones that give more heal spells are ok I guess, they are basically their own separate pool, meaning that if you have the feat that let you cast cure light wound, you can only cast that spell and it's ok.

The thing about herbalism that I don't like is that it use campaign based ressources (gold) to heal. This create situations where if you have unlimited cash you can heal to full when you want but if you don't have cash it's not much healing (it's easier to wait). The solution is to nearly remove all the gold cost of herbalism but limit it by day (assuming we stay within a daily paradigm of ressources). You can just say that these potions need the power of the alechemist to work and he can only make 2 per day maximum (or 1, depending on balance, etc). If you make a 3rd one, the first stop working, etc. Then the alchemist feat is basically allowing someone to be an off-healer and reduce the burden on having a cleric in theory.

If the cleric is still seen as required, then maybe the herbalism cleric will be seen as doubly required but that's where balancing is needed. Potions are right now much weaker then direct heals since they take a full action.

With this type of feat there could be a decent working line of feats that do buffing, etc, that could work also, all that if you change the limitation from hold to something per day.

Just some thoughts.

 

[VinylTap]

The fact some people enjoy healing is a great reason to support a healbot type character in the system, but a horrible reason to make it a necessary function of the game. Encounters should not require 'in combat' healing to win-- only in rare instances and should not be the norm.

The great thing about the cleric in PF is that as long as you're aligned "good" you're still able to heal with channel energy regardless of how else you build you character. Its built to be a solid OOC heal and helps keep the cleric flexible and fun for all styles of play.

 

[eprieur]

I think people misundertand why clerics feels required in games like dnd. It's mostly that without healing, the tactical game that is dnd and most rpg combat gets very limited. If you want the monster to be dangerous, but not TPK the party each session, you need some healing. It's the most basic protection versus the most effective attack strategy, concentrate on one target then move on to the next target.

Dev put healing in because it make the fight tactically more interesting and players pick healers because they are tactically powerfull.

 

[VinylTap]

I think people misundertand why clerics feels required in games like dnd. It's mostly that without healing, the tactical game that is dnd and most rpg combat gets very limited. If you want the monster to be dangerous, but not TPK the party each session, you need some healing. It's the most basic protection versus the most effective attack strategy, concentrate on one target then move on to the next target.

It's not because people like to heal that clerics are required, it's because they are tactically very powerfull.

The game is set up for multiple encounters per reset. You don't need a TPK situation to make players feel like their resources are being tested.

Straight healing is one of the least interesting ways of handling player damage. Debuffs, buffs, strategic positioning, bottle necks, scenery, just 'not getting hurt at all' are all more interesting way to get players to deal with it. When you have a heal bot before you just charge into everything because you know you'll be OK.

 

[eprieur]

The game is set up for multiple encounters per reset. You don't need a TPK situation to make players feel like their resources are being tested.

Straight healing is one of the least interesting ways of handling player damage. Debuffs, buffs, strategic positioning, bottle necks, scenery, just 'not getting hurt at all' are all more interesting way to get players to deal with it. When you have a heal bot before you just charge into everything because you know you'll be OK.

When that healbot exist then combat has to be tougher to keep the same level of risk.

Anyway I don't disagree with you my goal with this thread was to try to remove the healbot from next.

I like solutions like healing words much more (2 heals per fight, every fight, always and only 2).

 

[gyor]

Maybe its time to resurrect the idea of Priest and Cleric as seperate classes. That way those who wish to play the healbot and turn undead can and those who want to have more options and channel divinty can.

 

[VinylTap]

When that healbot exist then combat has to be tougher to keep the same level of risk.

Anyway I don't disagree with you my goal with this thread was to try to remove the healbot from next.

I like solutions like healing words much more (2 heals per fight, every fight, always and only 2).

That's a great idea actually-- but I think you can make it more interesting with more options. A big heal that takes a whole turn, or little heals as a swift actions or a damage spell that heals your friends as well. Force the cleric make decisions.

Its good because at that point the designers can accurately predict the average amount of healing in an encounter. I still think its safe to build enough utility in other classes so that 'damage avoidance' is as viable a strategy as 'damage repair'.

Something to keep in mind is that damage is healing, in a sense. If you spend a turn damaging the monster instead of healing your friend its going to (possibly) die a turn earlier (ie. heal OOC). The damage it could have possibly done to your allies counts in the long run. If its not around to do the damage then that damage doesn't have to be healed. This helps balance the equation.

Spells like 'sleep' and 'hold person' are also example of avoiding damage you don't have to heal because you've prevented it from happening.

 

[gyor]

Even removing the limitations of 4 hps or less for Cure Minor Wounds could work although some way would have to be found to keep the cleric from using it,outside combat to keep all PCs at full health. Maybe outside combat it reverts to a 1 minute ritual so you can't spam it for full health. Oh and words of power would have to be usable with spells at least Orisons and Cantrips.