The Santa thread, part 3 : Responsibilities of unbelievers

[Kahuna Burger]

In the Santa threads I've seen on parenting boards, a common theme that emerges is "Well, you don't have to do Santa, but you better teach your kids not to ruin Santa for my kids!!!!"

Now on first glance this seems like a fairly reasonable "don't dis other families' beliefs" sort of thing. But really, even if a kid says "I don't believe Santa is real" or "My family doesn't treat Santa as real" they will get the label of Ruiner just as fast as the kid who says "Santa's just a story, you gullible sap!" When a lot of parents say "teach your kids not to ruin Santa for my kid" they mean "teach your kid to lie".

Do you think that a kid who does not believe in a literal Santa has any responsibility to censor themselves around kids who may or may not believe? We'll assume for the moment that everyone can agree that actually insulting other kids or trying to upset them is wrong regardless of the subject and that isn't what's being discussed.

Also, are the expectations on a kid who either already has "found out" or plays Pretend Santa in their family different than those for a kid whose family doesn't celebrate Christmas at all?

(I was never a Santa Ruiner that I recall (except to Alekeg, in a prior thread ) but I was a Jesus's Birthday Ruiner on two occasions in high school, and I felt a weird combination of embarrassment on their behalf and guilt.)

 

[Jeysie]

If I had kids, I'd teach them to be honest with their opinions and beliefs (though in a respectful way). This might have unfortunate side effects in this sort of situation, but I think that being able to speak your mind and not have to hide or lie is too important to bend for a sweet but ultimately minor detail. Plus, having spent far too many years in retail, I'm all in favor of a move to de-commercialize Christmas anyway and go back to the roots of family and friends getting together to have a good time and give a *couple* well-thought-out presents to each other.

Of course, I don't plan on having children, so all of the Santa-loving parents can breathe a sigh of relief.

Peace & Luv, Liz

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I wouldn't call it "lying," I would call it "playing along." Heck, that's what my daughter already does with her little brother in other things (she still believes in Santa...I think). She knows perfectly well that certain things aren't real, but her brother believes, and she doesn't want to upset him, so she just plays along.

As for the more respectful scenarios you listed above, I wouldn't be upset by somebody telling my kids their family doesn't believe in Santa if they do it in a respectful way. I would explain it to my kids in the same way that I have explained that some people don't have the same religious beliefs as we do. Oddly enough, that conversation has come up primarily because of kids who don't celebrate Christmas.

 

[Voadam]

When I said to my three year old "Santa's coming" when I saw christmas lights at a shopping center recently he replied "Yes. He's driving to the mall." he remembered the terrifying experience of getting his picture taken with Santa at the mall when he was 2 and the not so terrifying experience of seeing Santa there from a distance as my wife took him around shopping.

Kids worlds are filled with stories, from books and TV, what their parents tell them, what they see, what they imagine, and what the kids around them tell them. A bunch of these sources will contradict each other.

I don't see the santa issue as a big deal.

I don't see a special responsibility for kids in dealing with the issue.

 

[jgbrowning]

Do you think that a kid who does not believe in a literal Santa has any responsibility to censor themselves around kids who may or may not believe?

No.

joe b.

 

[Treebore]

Mine did. Because once they realized the "truth" I told them not to ruin it for those who haven't.

On their own? No, I wouldn't expect them to consider others beliefs. Or the fun and mystique they have for having those beliefs.

Do I think parents should tell their kids to respect the fun of their friends? Definitely.

Its a once in a life time shot at having such fun, no one has the right to take that away, even if they don't believe in it.

 

[IcyCool]

"Well, you don't have to do Santa, but you better teach your kids not to ruin Santa for my kids!!!!"

While this statement seems a bit innocuous at first, this is really just another comment along the lines of, "Raising my kid is your responsibility."

And I'm sorry, but no matter how loud something like that is said, it's simply not true.

Your kids are not my responsibility. I will likely be nice and treat you and your kids respectfully, but I am by no means required to. And I will teach my kids to be the same way.

 

[Shin Ji]

While this statement seems a bit innocuous at first, this is really just another comment along the lines of, "Raising my kid is your responsibility."

And I'm sorry, but no matter how loud something like that is said, it's simply not true.

Your kids are not my responsibility. I will likely be nice and treat you and your kids respectfully, but I am by no means required to. And I will teach my kids to be the same way.

Exactly. I will not lie to my child about anything, Santa included. I will teach her to be respectful of the rights of others, however. Part of being a good guest is not bringing up subjects that make the host uncomfortable, so I would not expect my child to suddenly pipe up with "Santa's not real!" at a big family dinner. Still, if someone asks her about Santa, they better be prepared to hear what she actually thinks. Hopefully said in a polite manner. But when you're 2 or 3, politeness is kinda tricky.

 

[jester47]

We shouldn't be talking about this, because really, Santa is religion.

Think about it. Many children react in a similar fashion to adults who are confronted with the idea that the person of their faith might not be who they thought they were. The fist thing a child does after they get over the shock (ussually expressed by anger at the revealer) that Santa is not real is seek the higher authority, mom and dad.

There is a whole ritual with the letter, the milk and cookies, the present in return, etc. On one level it helps to teach a child about relationship: That love can be expressed with communication (the letter) and hospitality (the milk and cookies) and a gift (the present).

But our society has turned this learning exercise on its head. Santa's love has become conditional upon behevior. If you are naughty, you get coal. If you are good then your petition, if sent out before Dec 24th, is heard. Future good graces can be bought with milk and cookies upon delivery of the gift. Thus what could be a lesson in love becomes a control mechanism, a religion.

If we don't want our children to believe in Santa and not hurt other kids, I think we are better off teaching our kids about the real Saint Nicolas and the idea behind his giving. The anonymous giver does not give for the gratitude recieved and hopes that those he has given to are thankful for the gift. Perhaps the best response one child could say to another who believes in santa is "It is good that you are loved by someone who expects nothing in return, even if you don't know who they are maybe in the future you will show that to someone else." rather than "Santa's not real, HAHAHAHAHA!!!"

Lying is misleading someone intentionally. In the quest to make children happy many parents lie to their children out of love. While this is not right, telling someone that they are loved is not misleading them. Joy from a lie does not endure. When the truth is eventually realised or told, that joy withers. I cannot see the fault in telling a child that they are loved, and I can only see good that can come when they remember from the statement of their friend that they were loved. Perhaps then it will be easier to make the connection that it was not some anonymous saint but rather their own parents that loved them. Haveing your children tell other children that do believe in santa that they are loved helps the child make this connection and may give the parents of the decieved child a little grace.

 

[MonkeyDragon]

Speaking as one whose opinion is untainted by experience. ( )

Santa is a part of my family. We play santa even though the "kids" are all grown (I'm 26, my youngest brother is 20). We do it because it's fun and traditional. So I can't see myself not playing santa with my children if and when I have them.

Because of this, I would imagine that by the time my child is old enough to have figured out that santa isn't real, s/he will also be old enough for me to explain that santa is still a fun game to play, and it isn't nice to ruin other people's fun. I wouldn't expect them to lie if directly asked if they believed, but I do think I would try to instruct them not to burst the bubble of other kids, especially smaller ones.

I would hope that other parents would have the courtesy to teach their children the same. That's what it's about, really. It's santa claus, not a complex web of lies and deceit. It's basic manners to not try and ruin someone else's good time. Espceially when a simple "we don't believe in santa at our house" is all it takes.