The Santa thread, part 3 : Responsibilities of unbelievers

[megamania]

Mine did. Because once they realized the "truth" I told them not to ruin it for those who haven't.

On their own? No, I wouldn't expect them to consider others beliefs. Or the fun and mystique they have for having those beliefs.

Do I think parents should tell their kids to respect the fun of their friends? Definitely.

Its a once in a life time shot at having such fun, no one has the right to take that away, even if they don't believe in it.

ditto

 

[Kahuna Burger]

We shouldn't be talking about this, because really, Santa is religion.

I disagree. The childhood literal Santa belief (as opposed to the more abstracted "Yes Virginia..." adult Santa construct) is not a matter of faith but of manufactured evidence. A child with a literal Santa belief is believing the evidence of his or her eyes that presents have been delivered by a person outside of their family. Once kids find evidence that all presents were bought, wrapped and given by non-Santa individuals, the belief is abandoned.

 

[jester47]

I disagree. The childhood literal Santa belief (as opposed to the more abstracted "Yes Virginia..." adult Santa construct) is not a matter of faith but of manufactured evidence. A child with a literal Santa belief is believing the evidence of his or her eyes that presents have been delivered by a person outside of their family. Once kids find evidence that all presents were bought, wrapped and given by non-Santa individuals, the belief is abandoned.

The santa belief has all the stuctures of a faith/religion. Faith in an unseen being, rewards that are assumed to be from said being, rituals (letters, milk and cookies, mall visit) needed to reap rewards. Weather it is true or false is besides the point. It fits the structure and is a kid sized religion.

However since we all know that Santa is false, and most of his following is younger than 10, it is not a big deal. Essentially we are talking about a parenting issue rather than a religion issue. But as we talk about parenting and the beliefs of kids we should keep in mind that the line to religion can be easily crossed as we are talking about things people believe in.

 

[Morrus]

In no reasonable point of view can I see that as being interpreted as a "lie" in the "lies = bad" sense. When parents tell their kids about Santa, I don't consider them to be liars; it's called, as someone above said, "playing along."

And I think that a parent should be able to teach their kid whatever they like about the existence or non-existence of Santa, but if they do the latter, I would consider it a socially respectful and considerate thing to do to say "but play along nicely with the other kids if they believe it".

There are times when one's "principles" can be selflish - those times are those when no harm is being done, and a little flexibilty can bring happiness to someone else.

 

[Mark Chance]

I will likely be nice and treat you and your kids respectfully, but I am by no means required to.

Fair enough. By the same token, I'm not required to not jab my thumb into the eye of someone treating my children disrespectfully.



As to the thread topic, I've told my children that they are not to spoil other peoples' fun. Of course, my children still aren't quite sure that Santa isn't real, and even with their doubts, they still realize the virtue of playing along.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

In no reasonable point of view can I see that as being interpreted as a "lie" in the "lies = bad" sense. When parents tell their kids about Santa, I don't consider them to be liars; it's called, as someone above said, "playing along."

Really? I know several people who when they began to have doubts, asked their parents flat out if Santa was real or not and got a lie.

"Playing along" seems a strange euphemism. The kids are not playing, so the parents are not playing along. I play along with many things with my son. He comes up with something to pretend and we pretend together. Or I suggest a pretend and he plays along. But how is it playing along if the kid does not know it isn't real?

 

[Mark Chance]

But how is it playing along if the kid does not know it isn't real?

Because your preferences and ways of doing things aren't universally valid norms that others are obligated to adhere to?

 

[Tonguez]

The santa belief has all the stuctures of a faith/religion. Faith in an unseen being, rewards that are assumed to be from said being, rituals (letters, milk and cookies, mall visit) needed to reap rewards. Weather it is true or false is besides the point. It fits the structure and is a kid sized religion.

However since we all know that Santa is false, and most of his following is younger than 10, it is not a big deal. Essentially we are talking about a parenting issue rather than a religion issue. But as we talk about parenting and the beliefs of kids we should keep in mind that the line to religion can be easily crossed as we are talking about things people believe in.

"Respect for Others" as the right thing to do is a religious position and should not be discussed here

Afterall there is no valid evidence that my 'Respect' of an amorphous group labeled "Others" is in fact Right other than via my tacit faith in the shared 'rituals of Respect' within my culture

Anyway Santa is a cultural icon and should be respected as such regardless of whether beleive or not ....